Would tanks be okay if SE swapped the damage between tank and healers?

[All_Nonsense]

I think the real solution here is to give healers Kaiten. Everyone lost it when that went away so just give it to healers instead and I think everyone will be able to move on.

[Shurrikhan]

I think the real solution here is to give healers Kaiten. Everyone lost it when that went away so just give it to healers instead and I think everyone will be able to move on.

At least the user ID didn't go to waste.

[Oizen]

by this logic, healing would be more fun if it just got potency buffs.

I don't think that healers are having more fun now that number go bigger since last expansion....

Potency buffs? nah
More attack skills and a basic rotation? Probably yeah

[All_Nonsense]

I feed trolls

I recently learned not to take anything here seriously because putting effort into a post does almost as much good as giving healers Kaiten. Wishing you well tho.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Potency buffs? nah
More attack skills and a basic rotation? Probably yeah

Personally, I would rather have both. The only DPS loss Healer should come from doing their job, not from just being given too low potency.
But adding more attacks that do more damage than their current spam could fix that... And if SE is afraid of doing their job when it comes to designing the Jobs, then I would accept the potency increase as a minimum effort on their part.

[GoatOfWar]

Oh no, healing isn't fun. Let's make tanks less fun as well.
Nah. Good luck though.

These are the consequences of the current tank design though, they make tanks increasingly immortal.
Remember all the cries of ''no buff the other tanks don't nerf War wahh'' whenever people express concern for the powercreep that Warrior specifically was introducing? Well, this is what happens when you don't nerf things. This is not about fun, it's about balance. It should *never* be optimal to play without an entire role. But here we are. And it's becoming increasingly easy to do as well. First in just dungeons, then in trials, then in extremes and now people are starting to do it in savage. Hell, even ultimates. And as the powercreep continues it will become easier and easier. Previously, you had downsides that came with that sustain in the form of a deserved lower damage throughput. But even that was too much to ask.

Either tank sustain needs to nerfed or healers should be buffed as a proactive meassure to keep up with the powercreep.
Your damage number being lower than healers would not suddenly change your rotation in any way.
But since you're a War player, i think what you're really talking about is enjoying being overpowered instead.

[Carighan]

Bobby made this thread based on a suggestion I made in the other thread

I suggested this as a bandaid fix to the problem of healerless clears being a damage gain because tanks do so much more damage than healers. Making healing “fun” would only solve this issue if “making healing fun” involved making it so under absolutely no circumstances can the tanks actually replace the healers healing

This would work, in so far that current content always requires tanks due to the outgoing damage onto whoever is tanking being balanced against tank-only defenses.

Likewise, the HP of current content is balanced against the damage output of damage dealing jobs.

However, unlike the above two, the healing requirements of current content are not balanced for the extremely high possible healing output of the healing jobs (if they were to actually spend time on it) and instead balanced to be covered by groups with 0 healers, using DPS and in particular tanks to cover this, due to two of them having very high healing output.

That is indeed a problem, and you're right in that swapping the damage would be an interesting bandaid fix. This would mean Tank+Damage compositions would lack the damage to kill the boss once they have enough tanks to heal the group. While a healer would provide both of those, and hence it'd be more optimal to bring one than not, while DPS and Tanks are still required anyways due to the rest of the fight balance.

[Erit]

Because punishing the successful to satiate others doesn't come across at all as the petty vengeance of the spiteful, no siree.

I am obliged by both self-interest and common conscience to reply with "unask the question," because the foundational premise is faulty. Trying to balance the entirety of the game around minoritarian content is what got us into this mess. Trying to balance the entirety of the game around minoritarian content is not going to now get us out of it. Increasingly pushing savage, and now Ultimate, raiding as "the done thing" has the same problem as the upward trend in map sizes not being matched by a similar trend in total content to do in those maps; eventually, the paper wears so thin it tears. Eventually, you have appealed to the savage and ultimate raiders as much as you possibly can, and left the rest to rot long enough they fall off, and then you have a problem of economic proportions.

More prudent to balance the minoritarian content with reference to the entirety of the game, and stop trying to continually escalate the scale and scope, and consequentially the scuff, of everything.

But this has been long ignored, and will likely continue to be so.

[Supersnow845]

Because punishing the successful to satiate others doesn't come across at all as the petty vengeance of the spiteful, no siree.

I am obliged by both self-interest and common conscience to reply with "unask the question," because the foundational premise is faulty. Trying to balance the entirety of the game around minoritarian content is what got us into this mess. Trying to balance the entirety of the game around minoritarian content is not going to now get us out of it. Increasingly pushing savage, and now Ultimate, raiding as "the done thing" has the same problem as the upward trend in map sizes not being matched by a similar trend in total content to do in those maps; eventually, the paper wears so thin it tears. Eventually, you have appealed to the savage and ultimate raiders as much as you possibly can, and left the rest to rot long enough they fall off, and then you have a problem of economic proportions.

More prudent to balance the minoritarian content with reference to the entirety of the game, and stop trying to continually escalate the scale and scope, and consequentially the scuff, of everything.

But this has been long ignored, and will likely continue to be so.

How can you argue to stop continuing to push scaling too far in scope when we are in this mess entirely because tanks scaling in literally every conceivable sense has been so dramatically scaled that it’s actually pushing out another role

Tanks aren’t “successful” as you put it, they are literally just being given the healer roles responsibilities with no strings attached, that sort of balancing doesn’t help anyone

[ovIm]

How can you argue to stop continuing to push scaling too far in scope when we are in this mess entirely because tanks scaling in literally every conceivable sense has been so dramatically scaled that it’s actually pushing out another role

Tanks aren’t “successful” as you put it, they are literally just being given the healer roles responsibilities with no strings attached, that sort of balancing doesn’t help anyone

Asking for any role to do less DPS will never be something people would embrace willingly. Also, would that not go against what Healers want, healing? I often read that Healers don't want to DPS, its why they play healer. Then why advocate for making Healer DPS even more mandatory than it already is?

Instead of forcing a higher/different DPS discrepancy, it would be better if the game actually brings in unique Healer mechanics that cannot be resolved by other roles. Make overhealing do something (like fill a boss debuff bar, that bursts into a short stun, idk) or bring in burst heal checks that require dedicated healer healspells.

And no, I have no idea what else those mechanics could be. I am not a Game Designer, after all. That would be something to figure out for Square Enix.