True fault of current tank design: Lack of identity

[Tunda]

Plenty of fights still have tank swaps and proper tank mechanics and knowing how to manage pulls is still role knowledge
I think that aspect of tanking is fine. I prefer it being easier to manage enmity now because it used to be that if a DPS didn't pop diversion they would 100% rip aggro

I agree, enmity now is way better.. but still the things that you have to manage as a tank is less than other roles..

not only that but mastering 1 tank = 80% of other tanks

[Carighan]

I agree, enmity now is way better.. but still the things that you have to manage as a tank is less than other roles..

More importantly, all combat skill of a tank player is in dealing damage. Even picking up enemies just comes down to positioning yourself so that your AoE hits all enemies, at which point aggro is automated. This is the exactly same thing a DPS does to maximize their damage output.

Sadly, there is very little active tanking gameplay right now. It could be improved, and even with how bad TBN is nowadays, Dark Knight at least shows the faintest promise of this gameplay.

But to further improve it, we'd need a bit more willingness to rip existing mechanics apart:

* Extra emnity from tank stance reduced massively.
* Many damage skills lose all or virtually all their damage output.
* Other damage skills increased in damage to compensate.
* The skills with reduced damage now deal massive amounts of emnity.

In other words, you'd have to balance yourself how often you use your emnity generators vs your damage skills. Could even bake this into the job mechanics and make it a unique setup for each job, to further differentiate tanks and heterogenize them! Compare how in WoW's first expansion, Paladin's did a lot of their emnity via Consecration's continuous tick-damage, which was far superior for AoE pickups but inflexible due to its CD+duration, it could not be moved within 10s of being used, but on single targets was roughly the same as other tanks. So for raid bosses it didn't make a big enough difference to matter, but still had strong flavor.

It'd be weird of course, as it would require a massive retooling of all current tank skills, but like my previous post, I don't see how to heterogenize tanks well without doing such massive reworks. :<

[Erit]

In other words, you'd have to balance yourself how often you use your emnity generators vs your damage skills. Could even bake this into the job mechanics and make it a unique setup for each job, to further differentiate tanks and heterogenize them!

This was put to the sword sometime in Stormblood-Shadowbringers—I was on hiatus for that era so don't know exactly when the change happened, only that it did—and Warrior lost their crunchiest GCD in the process. RIP Skull Sunder.

[Absurdity]

—and Warrior lost their crunchiest GCD in the process. RIP Skull Sunder.

You spelled Butcher's Block wrong.

[CKNovel]

I agree, enmity now is way better.. but still the things that you have to manage as a tank is less than other roles..
not only that but mastering 1 tank = 80% of other tanks

Tanks have to manage a DPS rotation while also managing defensive CDs, party survival and their own survival, sometimes placing the boss, enmity swap for TBs...
If you're not doing that, you're doing a terrible tank job and just trying to play a tank like a DPS.

Same can be said for DPS, if you master 1 DPS = 80% of other DPS as they all revolves around the same thing, Always Be Casting and doing their burst within raidbuffs.

[Erit]

You spelled Butcher's Block wrong.

It combo'd off of Skull Sunder, very little difference in which one gets mentioned.

Tanks have to manage a DPS rotation while also managing defensive CDs, party survival and their own survival, sometimes placing the boss, enmity swap for TBs...
If you're not doing that, you're doing a terrible tank job and just trying to play a tank like a DPS.

Same can be said for DPS, if you master 1 DPS = 80% of other DPS as they all revolves around the same thing, Always Be Casting and doing their burst within raidbuffs.

Not a lot of boss-positioning work to do these days. M1S I'm told and M2/S where keeping her centered makes uptime less cursed, but in most normal content? Nothing doing.

[CKNovel]

Not a lot of boss-positioning work to do these days. M1S I'm told and M2/S where keeping her centered makes uptime less cursed, but in most normal content? Nothing doing.

There's movement in the first 3 savages, it's simply not the focus anymore but it's more than what we used to have in EW, ShB and SB.
In Normal content every role responsibility is incredibly low.

[PyurBlue]

I agree, enmity now is way better.. but still the things that you have to manage as a tank is less than other roles..

Enmity is very one dimensional so I can see why its original form is not missed. I think its flaw was in execution though. When enmity generation boils down to dealing damage and pressing a "fix it" button every so often (like Lucid for MP) it can become forgettable or tiresome. Enmity built around blocking damage might be more interesting. It also provides a more believable reason for enemies to care about tanks compared to the current system where tank damage is just special and catches enemy attention more for some reason. Skills like Low Blow shouldn't have been disabled in higher content, though they also should be less one dimensional like enmity itself. Disabling an enemy for 5 seconds is too strong for general use. Stun could instead make AoE's smaller and castbars slower. The enemy being stunned would be losing massive amounts of potential damage and that's why they'd focus on the tanks. The tanks themselves would also have something to do other than keep up their simple rotations.

I would have loved to see enmity go down that route instead of being trivialized.

[Tunda]

Enmity is very one dimensional so I can see why its original form is not missed. I think its flaw was in execution though. When enmity generation boils down to dealing damage and pressing a "fix it" button every so often (like Lucid for MP) it can become forgettable or tiresome. Enmity built around blocking damage might be more interesting. It also provides a more believable reason for enemies to care about tanks compared to the current system where tank damage is just special and catches enemy attention more for some reason. Skills like Low Blow shouldn't have been disabled in higher content, though they also should be less one dimensional like enmity itself. Disabling an enemy for 5 seconds is too strong for general use. Stun could instead make AoE's smaller and castbars slower. The enemy being stunned would be losing massive amounts of potential damage and that's why they'd focus on the tanks. The tanks themselves would also have something to do other than keep up their simple rotations.

I would have loved to see enmity go down that route instead of being trivialized.

most old mechanic was good on paper but not excution..
I think this is a common problem in FFXIV job design.. they have great ideas.. but they just give up rather than improving it..

I currently tanks is just a DPS job who have high defense they do not feel tanks.. no reaction requires other than 2 min mitigation which you can plan out with a timer.. just do all ur rotation like any other dps job.. tanks currently focus in 2 min buff rather than actual tanking