Would tanks be okay if SE swapped the damage between tank and healers?

[Shurrikhan]

I mean, it is possible for healers to out damage a tank in dungeons already.

If both the tank and healer are dealing their full damage potential, only WHM has any shot at that, iirc. Yes, tanks do less damage than indicated by their potency due to an output reduction embedded in their damage formula while healers do 30% more than their potencies indicate due to Maim and Mend, but even then the potency differences are enough to make up for that.

I don't see a bump in ST damage for healers being much of an issue per se, I guess it just depends if they'd be happy merely doing more damage with the same 2 skills or not.

They wouldn't. It'd simply reduce the rDPS reward for replacing the healer with a WAR/PLD, such that doing so would be for the fun of trying something nontraditional rather than because it's literally faster anyways.

Another consideration, however, would be to add more damage support in to their kits. AST provides a decent amount of rDPS, for example. If instead of a direct damage buff they gained more support ability for increasing damage, maybe even a larger change that only healers have rDPS support function, it'd be easier to balance those outlying ranged phys and ensure healer viability at the same time.

You don't have to remove Litany, Voice, Finale, Standard Finish, Technical Finish, Searing Light, Embolden, Brotherhood, and the rest just to allow AST more (or more interesting) rDPS. You need only give it and ensure the healers are still balanced well against each other and roughly against the other roles thereafter.

While I'd prefer a bit more variance in their effects and wouldn't even mind replacing LB and most offensive raidbuffs with a revised form of LB (where we maybe start with a bar's worth of Regiment Points or Technique Points or what have you and can spend it on the opener and roughly every 90-150 seconds at varying %effectiveness and/or duration), but I feel having raid buffs among more than just healers is better for the game than limiting them, and I see no reason more why non-ASTs should have raid buffs than a non-healer. Heck, the first raid buffer was solely Physical Ranged (now an Addle-variant, Second Wind, and rez away from being any other sort of Ranged).

[whiskeybravo]

but I feel having raid buffs among more than just healers is better for the game than limiting them, and I see no reason more why non-ASTs should have raid buffs than a non-healer.

It was more or less just a thought experiment I was pondering. There are plenty of complaints about the various capabilities between ranged jobs, and to a lesser extent some melees, which apparently make it difficult for SE to balance. Like, logically it makes sense for dps to provide dps buffs but I just wonder if, in the larger scheme of things, shifting those aspects to another role (I think tanks or healers could work in this regard) we would end up in a better place.

In the example I was thinking of, something in a 3 min window fits with the pace of 4 player instances, while in 8 mans the healers could (I would like to assume) take turns for each 2 min window. For a tank example, it would work similarly but probably require giving healers back the vast majority of responsibility for party mitigation. (which I suppose could be done anyways)

It's just more about the idea that if healers wanted to do more damage it doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of direct damage increases. That and if they're worried about being left out, or realistically on the verge of it, well then give them something that would result in the party being at a major disadvantage without them. The buff would have to be strong enough to dissuade bringing a dps instead of a healer, probably in combination with a base damage bump to healers to help meet that threshold.

[Shurrikhan]

It's just more about the idea that if healers wanted to do more damage it doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of direct damage increases.

That's fair, and is certainly. possible. I just don't really see offensive raidbuffs, specifically, as thematic for any but SCH and AST, is all -- not because I want raidbuffs constrained or anything else, but simply because it feels to me like giving WHM or especially SGE those buffs would make no more sense than giving them to SAM, VPR, or BLM.

[whiskeybravo]

That's fair, and is certainly. possible. I just don't really see offensive raidbuffs, specifically, as thematic for any but SCH and AST, is all -- not because I want raidbuffs constrained or anything else, but simply because it feels to me like giving WHM or especially SGE those buffs would make no more sense than giving them to SAM, VPR, or BLM.

True enough. Nobody really likes it when they get stuff taken away, even if it ends up being a wash in the final results. Others have mentioned turning various things in to Role Actions to help alleviate balancing restrictions and that's not a bad idea either. Either way there's no 1-shot solution to all this, some combination is going to be required and hopefully we can throw enough stuff at the wall to end up with something decent.