Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Banggugyangu]

No, you showed something that isn't what you are claiming it is. There is no data which quantifies subpopulations into their skill based subsets. You are making too many assumptions to try to spin "this is some kind of data" into showing what you basically pulled from your nether regions. Being "harder to carry than now" doesn't make your assumptions accurate in any conceivable way.

Gonna assume you didn't play FFXI back then, as you'd understand that certain HNM kills in 75 era, as well as building relic and mythic weapons wasn't something even remotely feasible for low-mid ranged players. Outside of the gil costs, they required a level of commitment that the low-mid range players simply didn't offer. Heck, look at the miniscule numbers of players who attempted AV and PW kills in FFXI prior to level cap raise... Are you going to claim that you can't use that as a metric for player skill? In 75 era FFXI it took a substantial amount of player skill just to POP AV, let alone give a mentionable try at fighting him. The funny part about that is... that majority of those players overlap with the relic and mythic list.... crazy how that works out, huh?

[Alyx-Greywind]

Gonna assume you didn't play FFXI back then, as you'd understand that certain HNM kills in 75 era, as well as building relic and mythic weapons wasn't something even remotely feasible for low-mid ranged players. Outside of the gil costs, they required a level of commitment that the low-mid range players simply didn't offer. Heck, look at the miniscule numbers of players who attempted AV and PW kills in FFXI prior to level cap raise... Are you going to claim that you can't use that as a metric for player skill? In 75 era FFXI it took a substantial amount of player skill just to POP AV, let alone give a mentionable try at fighting him. The funny part about that is... that majority of those players overlap with the relic and mythic list.... crazy how that works out, huh?

This is a whole nothing burger, we're not playing FFXI.

[Jaxtaro]

Gonna assume you didn't play FFXI back then, as you'd understand that certain HNM kills in 75 era, as well as building relic and mythic weapons wasn't something even remotely feasible for low-mid ranged players. Outside of the gil costs, they required a level of commitment that the low-mid range players simply didn't offer. Heck, look at the miniscule numbers of players who attempted AV and PW kills in FFXI prior to level cap raise... Are you going to claim that you can't use that as a metric for player skill? In 75 era FFXI it took a substantial amount of player skill just to POP AV, let alone give a mentionable try at fighting him. The funny part about that is... that majority of those players overlap with the relic and mythic list.... crazy how that works out, huh?

Don't throw mud at the wall hoping it'll stick, you are injecting your assumptions to pretend that data exists which....does not exist.

There is no online game where people can't be carried. Everquest was super hardcore, and I carried casual people through Planes of Power flagging all the way to Plane of Time while it was current, and the commitment for that dwarves anything in modern MMO's when it comes to time commitment and encounter complexity.

You keep trying to make the claim that data exists, but is simply doesn't, andbeven if one were to take your invalid premise as clvalid, it's STILL representative of a single time snapshot of a single online game, and does nothing to establish the claim you made about current online gaming demographics, nor does it lend even a scintilla of credibility when you clearly invoked several online games going as far back as UO, yet they don't providevthevdara you claim as a source.

[Corlia]

Granted I have played wow for 14 Years, FF14 for just over 3 I can honestly tell you FF14 dungeons are pretty forgiving in mechanics. Some Warcraft dungeons are not so forgiving. But I have seen those dungeons changed with NPC mobs removed, and bad scaling for Time Walkers. I don't know how much FF14 has altered some I just Know the main MSQ duty was changed and much of the cut scenes removed. So beyond that I am going to talk about how I feel about the new dungeons.
Skill. is it a skill Issue? I don't think so. Some of the abilities the bosses use are almost instantaneous so if your not ready for it to happen it can be fatal. I'm 61 and my reflexes are not as fast now as my time playing Warcraft.
Gear. Getting gear to do these could be problem I think the gear vendor stops at 97 and your trying to do a 100 duty with that gear your death rate will be higher if you mess up.
Learn. I would suggest to those struggling to look up guides for these newer dungeons as they do help, and will help you learn the mechanics.

I honestly do not know how SE could even try to change the dungeons for those with a disability. As I have notice as others have pointed out the NPC are sometime useless and get themselves killed right off. it's frustrating in Vangard on the second boss since Catboy like to always be in the wrong position or constantly standing on top of me when i play tank. It could very well be my own fault but no matter where I am he has to be chugging to close for tank busters.

Beyond that I have no issue with the new dungeons. I like them and yet I did die a lot only because I failed to look up any helpful advice or videos. If you are not sure ask your other players in your party I had one explain the whole Valley duty to me and what to look for, that made a huge difference. At this stage if you do it once, it's done and you can buy 710 gear of the market board. FF14 does give you that option to gearing Warcraft Never did. You were always in a gear race.

Over all I think FF14 is more friendly and forgiving in game play and mechanics. Do things need to change to accommodate players? No is my answer.

[Banggugyangu]

Skill. is it a skill Issue? I don't think so. Some of the abilities the bosses use are almost instantaneous so if your not ready for it to happen it can be fatal. I'm 61 and my reflexes are not as fast now as my time playing Warcraft.

None of the abilities are instantaneous or even close to it. If you pay attention to the cast bars, you'll see the same general time to cast as all previous content. The difference is that if you're waiting for the telegraph to show up, you're going to get caught with your pants down. The Strayborough Deadwalk final boss is a great example of this. The first mechanic is always a line down the middle first, then the sides variant of the same mechanic afterwards. The cast bar is about 6 seconds, but the telegraph is only about 250ms. It's easy to tell which is which, however, if you're watching the boss. You can be square in the middle of the center line when the castbar starts and have a surplus of time to get out of it if you're watching the boss and not your hotbars.

Gear. Getting gear to do these could be problem I think the gear vendor stops at 97 and your trying to do a 100 duty with that gear your death rate will be higher if you mess up.

This might seem odd to a longtime WoW player because it's very different, there, but FFXIV's design in general is one that has low emphasis on gear. Yes, gear will make things go faster and easier, but the overall effect is pretty low compared to other MMOs.

Over all I think FF14 is more friendly and forgiving in game play and mechanics. Do things need to change to accommodate players? No is my answer.

Generally a good take, honestly.

[Tameelah]

I have a physical and extremely painful condition that has rendered my main hand all but useless. Like Alyx I have also struggled with current content. I barely managed to get through MSQ as well. I have made myself physically sick doing some of the content as sudden movement causes me great pain. My limit on playing has a timer, I can't play for hours at a time, I only get to play when and if I can. I am now at the tipping point where I am considering if I should be playing this game or not any more.

[Banggugyangu]

I have a physical and extremely painful condition that has rendered my main hand all but useless. Like Alyx I have also struggled with current content. I barely managed to get through MSQ as well. I have made myself physically sick doing some of the content as sudden movement causes me great pain. My limit on playing has a timer, I can't play for hours at a time, I only get to play when and if I can. I am now at the tipping point where I am considering if I should be playing this game or not any more.

As I've stated several times previously in this thread. The movements necessary aren't more demanding than any other content. You need to not rely on ground marker telegraphs, though. If you're paying attention to the boss and the surroundings, there's a lot of time for movement from the moment the mechanics can be discerned, but if you're relying on the ground telegraphs, you're probably going to fail the mechanics regardless of disability. I'm not discounting what you're going through, but instead saying that it's likely that you're not paying attention to the important parts leading to it. The key thing here is that "Important Parts" have changed in dawntrail.

[Tameelah]

Yep that is always a possibility, perhaps a UI issue I am not picking up something. It can be pretty hard to concentrate at times. Though I usually avoid dungeons etc when I am that unwell.

[Banggugyangu]

The point is to stop looking at UI, hotbars, and the ground, and start looking at the boss arena and the boss itself. The mechanics in Dawntrail are mostly telegraphed either through boss animations or through the happenings around you. They usually have ground AoE telegraphs, too, but by the time those come out, it's far too late to adjust. Take the final boss of Strayborough Deadwalk. The very first mechanic is a line AoE straight down the middle. It's telegraphed by the boss itself. It's then followed up by its 2nd variant, also telegraphed by the boss. It's pretty easy to discern if you're looking at the boss, but if you wait for the ground marker, you're gonna get hit every single time, because that ground marker is only visible for about half a second.

[Rueby]

After finishing the MSQ, I had alot of difficulty discerning some mechanics in final dungeon boss 2 and 3. Not out of 'this mechanic is hard' but more the particle effects were causing me eyestrain or is painful/hard to look at. I don't mind difficulty, but don't make shit hard to see. And please, make me able to adjust where the flashy red text is on my screen, alot of times it's distracting than helpful.

I hope they'd stop making stuff harder to see or painful to see. Visual clarity shouldn't be a difficulty.