M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Rehayem]

Eh, not impressed, it's known content can be cleared without healers, even ultimates. Ultimately this will fall on deaf ears because JP playerbase is very much satisfied with the current state of healers since it's their "braindead relax" job for roulettes where they don't want to heal more nor be given more options to dps to feel engaged.

[Chiru_Kai]

So the complaint is "the fact that it is possible at all shows it's completely obsolete"?

It's along the same line as saying something silly like:
"omg people are drinking soup straight from the bowl, shows how spoons are completely obsolete!"

like... ???
Until this is meta, this is just a meme clear done by people who probably planned this out and had many failed attempts. Let them play however they want and the rest of the normal players will just continue to have 2 healers, including a full on guide for the exact party layout, and still can't clear a fight.

[Derio]

Next raid tier they have to try it on week 1.

[Grann-Goro]

LMAO no. yeah sure lets give healers more of an excuse to have a god complex. "mathematically impossible" omfg get over yourself.

And of course, you're aware it's already "mathematically impossible" to do it without tanks, or without DPSs, right ?

What's so strange to ask the same for healers ?

[Wyti]

The only 2 reason people are still bringing healers is
1) raid targeting mechanic and guide being adapted to it.
2) making up for mistakes.

Healer are useless in a group who makes none. If you haven't played one you don't know how useless you fell in week8+ when kills are clear.
Well this patch its even worse than usual and we're tired of 6+years of neglect. To all those spewing excuse like its only elite player, please play healer and come back if you still think the same.

[Colt47]

Hats off to doing it, honestly. At least everyone got to use their full kits since I don't think anyone really has to use second wind or bloodbath otherwise.

[Striker44]

SE white knights remain as predictable as usual.

This...is just a sad cop-out that says you know you can't actually refute the point being made.

As a side not imagine comparing the balance and self imposed challenge of a single player game and think its a valid example to justifiy the glaring issues of a multiplayer one

Is this just having no idea what's going on, or intentionally "missing" the point and setting up a false argument because you can't refute the real one? I could just as well have pointed to people who pull off "Ironman" challenges in MMO's, heck there's a guy who played WoW Classic and successfully wall-to-wall pulled Maraudon (one of the longer dungeons in the game that doesn't have the artificial "walls" seen in FFXIV dungeons) while playing solo with no gear. The simple point is there will always be highly skilled players in any game who find ways to challenge themselves and accomplish things that 99.9% of those playing the game will never do. It doesn't matter what kind of game, solo or group content, whatever.

You're also starting with a false premise in talking about "glaring issues", which inevitably leads to a false conclusion. I could just as easily (and more accurately) say "Imagine taking what a select group of elite players can do and thinking it's a valid example to justify fundamentally changing the game for everyone else (who has no shot at pulling that off)."

This used to be my exact mentality, but at this point it's happened with too many different fights, not to mention only on week 2.

The "week 2" thing isn't really relevant anymore, because it might be "week 2" of that particular raid, but the people raiding it likely have years of experience. For a good comparison, look at "world first" clears of Heroic/Mythic raids in WoW over time. It went from taking 2-4 months for world-first clears in WoW's early days to consistently under 2 weeks in later expansions. It's even more staggering if you compare kill times in the earlier days of Retail WoW with the same bosses in Classic WoW, where it went from taking months to most clears happening *on release day* (or a day later at worst). The players doing these top-tier things have mastered the game itself - you're going to see things like this with any fight in a relatively short time no matter what happens. It still doesn't mean anything for what the vast majority of the playerbase actually experiences.

[Isala]

So the complaint is "the fact that it is possible at all shows it's completely obsolete"?

It's along the same line as saying something silly like:
"omg people are drinking soup straight from the bowl, shows how spoons are completely obsolete!"

like... ???
Until this is meta, this is just a meme clear done by people who probably planned this out and had many failed attempts. Let them play however they want and the rest of the normal players will just continue to have 2 healers, including a full on guide for the exact party layout, and still can't clear a fight.

You're completely missing the point. We were told that healers had "engaging" gameplay in Savage/Ultimate. To do this without actual healers means that there's so little "engaging gameplay" for healers, that you can complete the fights without even needing one. Which means that the heal checks are so damned low that we're still pushing the same god damned boring one button spam as we are in content since the level 10 guildhest. Why the hell are you defending healers having the same damn gameplay for 90 levels?!

[Bobby66]

Healers having a god complex or wanting an excuse for it? Mate, healers are begging for a place to be needed other than 3 out of 5 ultimates. If you think wanting to be needed is equal to living out a god complex, then you lost the plot. Take your own advice and get over yourself.

Thing is I think most player still need healers to clear the content. What you are asking for is not to be needed cause as stated most players need healers to beat content. What you really want is more engaging content.

[HighlanderClone]

And of course, you're aware it's already "mathematically impossible" to do it without tanks, or without DPSs, right ?

What's so strange to ask the same for healers ?

Not so sure about that with how pathetic the DPS check is this tier.