Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[HighlanderClone]

The 'most correct' solutions in the RoS were always the ones that didn't innovate on traditions at all.

The developers wanted to shoehorn in a story about how traditions and cultures should be respected and have hidden strengths and a raison d'etre.

But you're right that throughout the story it has gone so far that we take objectively more inefficient solutions because it's "tradition" over Koana's innovative solutions. The tradition is not merely important. It's portrayed as superior to science.

That kind of mentality is also why we have people eating traditional herbal remedies for tuberculosis and then dying because they refuse to see a doctor.

A more mature story will explore the tension between tradition and innovation, how innovation harms culture and how culture stops people from living a better life. There is no objectively superior choice when it comes to tradition and innovation. But of course, the story is written for 4 year olds so we can't have any of that nuanced discussion as it will fry the two remaining neurons of the intended audience.

[sharknado]

This is fun to listen to:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJiYJXd4vaE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdIcjviRFo

Deep voice released on the MSQ

[BigBoom550]

The developers wanted to shoehorn in a story about how traditions and cultures should be respected and have hidden strengths and a raison d'etre.

But you're right that throughout the story it has gone so far that we take objectively more inefficient solutions because it's "tradition" over Koana's innovative solutions. The tradition is not merely important. It's portrayed as superior to science.

That kind of mentality is also why we have people eating traditional herbal remedies for tuberculosis and then dying because they refuse to see a doctor.

A more mature story will explore the tension between tradition and innovation, how innovation harms culture and how culture stops people from living a better life. There is no objectively superior choice when it comes to tradition and innovation. But of course, the story is written for 4 year olds so we can't have any of that nuanced discussion as it will fry the two remaining neurons of the intended audience.

A mature story would have had the Reed-eaters reveal that they had a stockpile, most of this was BS, and they wanted to see how the candidates handled it. Koana's solution, and Wuk's solution, are both valid.

Koana addressed the immediate, objective problem. What he missed was that the festival isn't just about the reeds, but about the communal traditions, the unity the festivities bring about. It's half about the food, half about the people who eat it.

Wuk would have been commended for finding the right solution, but chided for her immediate focus on 'We need to make them smile!'. She was focusing on the emotional reaction and not the reason for it. Sure, she was later *told* it was a magical focus, but she didn't draw the connection herself.

The challenge proctor reflecting that between the two of them they'd make 'One fine Dawnservant' would even be foreshadowing that they end up ruling together, forming the two halves of the whole that's required.

But, like you said, the story was almost written for someone who has one braincell pinging around like the DVD screen saver. G'raha's moment was when it hit a corner.

[Yuella]

A mature story would have had the Reed-eaters reveal that they had a stockpile, most of this was BS, and they wanted to see how the candidates handled it. Koana's solution, and Wuk's solution, are both valid.

Koana addressed the immediate, objective problem. What he missed was that the festival isn't just about the reeds, but about the communal traditions, the unity the festivities bring about. It's half about the food, half about the people who eat it.

Wuk would have been commended for finding the right solution, but chided for her immediate focus on 'We need to make them smile!'. She was focusing on the emotional reaction and not the reason for it. Sure, she was later *told* it was a magical focus, but she didn't draw the connection herself.

The challenge proctor reflecting that between the two of them they'd make 'One fine Dawnservant' would even be foreshadowing that they end up ruling together, forming the two halves of the whole that's required.

But, like you said, the story was almost written for someone who has one braincell pinging around like the DVD screen saver. G'raha's moment was when it hit a corner.

Which is the point of the story. None of them is good enough individually to be Dawnservant. Both Wuk Lamat and Koana realized this at the end of the contest and Wuk Lamat invited Koana to be co-dawn servant.

[Midare]

Which is the point of the story. None of them is good enough individually to be Dawnservant. Both Wuk Lamat and Koana realized this at the end of the contest and Wuk Lamat invited Koana to be co-dawn servant.

One of them quit the feat because of "muh sister" and the other told the starving birds the equivalent of "have you tried dancing, lmao?"

Admittedly... as someone who lives in south america, this feels accurate to how governments work here.

[BigBoom550]

One of them quit the feat because of "muh sister" and the other told the starving birds the equivalent of "have you tried dancing, lmao?"

Admittedly... as someone who lives in south america, this feels accurate to how governments work here.

I was going to say...

Wuk's lack of technical or analytical skill never really bit her in the challenge. Koana had the development to realize that yeah, he wasn't the most emotionally available person. Wuk didn't. It makes it really come across as pity.

Plus like... asking Koana literally during the coronation? Was she even sure he was going to be there? She talks about empathy, tells him she's going to ask the PC to stay and be part of her administration, but doesn't bother to try and tell him 'listen, you're important too'? She doesn't think that might come across a bit... insulting?

[Coratanni]

Which is the point of the story. None of them is good enough individually to be Dawnservant. Both Wuk Lamat and Koana realized this at the end of the contest and Wuk Lamat invited Koana to be co-dawn servant.

The problem though, is Wuk Lamat's solutions worked due to plot convenience from the writers because heaven forbid she failed. She didn't really learn anything. She's the same dumb character she was in the post EW msq.

[Striker44]

Plus like... asking Koana literally during the coronation? Was she even sure he was going to be there? She talks about empathy, tells him she's going to ask the PC to stay and be part of her administration, but doesn't bother to try and tell him 'listen, you're important too'? She doesn't think that might come across a bit... insulting?

Well, yeah, I'd say she could be confident Koana was definitely going to be there during the coronation. I had the same thought of "wait, you didn't clear this with him beforehand?" but I could definitely see someone of her age and maturity thinking it would be an "awesome surprise" thing to do rather than insulting.

She didn't really learn anything. She's the same dumb character she was in the post EW msq.

This I'd have to disagree with completely. She learns a ton of things during the MSQ. Aside from the literal lore she learns about the various cultures in Tural (whereas she previously only interacted with those who had moved to Tuliyollal), she learns a lot about herself. Much of it is even made straight-up explicit, such as her out-loud monologue about realizing there are people she can trust and doesn't have to put on the act of false bravado in front of, or the scene at the top of Warqor Lar Dor where she realizes the empathy she has is one of the three main characteristics that made Gulool Ja Ja an effective ruler and that she does in fact have something important to bring to the table.

One of them quit the feat because of "muh sister" and the other told the starving birds the equivalent of "have you tried dancing, lmao?"

Koana bowed out of the contest because he came to believe that Wuq Lumat would be the "best" one to become Dawnservant, and completing the feat at all was going to require a combined effort.

Which is the point of the story. None of them is good enough individually to be Dawnservant. Both Wuk Lamat and Koana realized this at the end of the contest and Wuk Lamat invited Koana to be co-dawn servant.

Exactly. I wonder if it gets "lost" on us sometimes that Gulool Ja Ja is actually two separate people, just in one body (think Siamese twins). Tuliyollal always had two rulers, one focused on the physical aspects of the job, one the thinker. It just so happened that the two rulers shared a single physical body in Gulool Ja Ja. Wuk Lumat and Koana both come to realize that they, like their adoptive father, bring the two different sides of the same proverbial coin.

[ZXN]

...The Hanu Hanu chief among them. They are given an innovative solution for their reed-growing issue that could presumably work in any and all circumstances and yet they are enamoured by Wuk Lamat's genius idea of dancing in front of the flowers and hoping that'll do the trick.

To add to this, The Hanu Hanu elder KNEW what Ihih'hana does to the reeds the whole time and just kind of...stayed quiet about it to the village apparently. Yes, the story does say they have been slacking on keeping the float repaired and not taking Ihih'hana seriously and just using it as a day to party, but the fact that the Elder and Wuk Evu knew about Ihih'hana's true purpose and just kind of...didn't tell or teach the younger Hanu Hanu about it, or how the older Hanu Hanu just somehow "forgot" it's importance is kind of dumb.

It would've been more believable if the the story was that most of the older Hanu Hanu went to live in Tuliyollal and the ones that stayed in Kozama'uka were just too old to properly perform Ihih'hana themselves now, leaving just the younger generations of Hanu Hanu to do it. However, the younger generation don't care enough about performing Ihih'hana "properly" because the harvest has always been solid all these past several years and they grew under the assumption that "The magical focus of the float and the Hanu Hanu's prayers for a good harvest are what is keeping the reeds healthy" is just some dumb old story to get them to take things seriously when they don't want to. But now their lack of respect or care for their own culture comes back to bite them after the storm and now they don't have enough food, so in a last-resort desperate attempt to try ANYTHING to get their crops growing again, even though they are all skeptical it'll actually work, they are convinced to give it their all and perform Ihih'hana the proper way and learn how important Ihih'hana really is to their way of life. Maybe even in a similar vein to how the Pelupelu who made the Saddle for Wuk wanted Zoraal Ja to win they could've made it so that some of the younger Hanu Hanu didn't care about Wuk's suggestion of Ihih'hana because they are more interested in Koana's innovations instead of performing some dumb festival.

Instead we get a cat going "Even though you are starving and mourning, you should dance and be happy and have fun" and being told as a result "Oh my goodness, you're a genius! Thank you for saving our harvest!" and another cat solving the reed issue using alchemy and being told as a result "Yeah, thanks, I guess."

[sharplysurreal]

the smile song is so bad dude what happened to ff14?