With Apologies to Sena Bryer

[Aword3213]

Like you said, respect is earned. Why should I respect someone who has said they are unwilling to respect people I care about based off the actions of some random trans people I've never met before? If you want basic decency from people, you have to give it in return, and you just described how you're unwilling to.

Sena is not here. You're demanding respect for a person who is not present on the forum, but you're more than happy to be disrepectful to people participating in the discussion by throwing labels. You're literally offended on someone else's behalf.

What basic decency are you talking about?

[Vensaval]

You are you, the VA is the VA, so try not to take it personally simply because you happen to share a label.

Just wanted to emphasize this.

[Burmecia]

Some people in here may claim not to hate trans people, but they sure don't seem to respect them.

in general, respect is eared; not given - in circles which aren't you family and friends at least. LGBT is not above that social dynamic.
i dont get the feel that sena's ingroup/s ever tell her: "that's enough". or maybe they do and she is dancing past the best advice given to her by the people she should be listening.

What basic decency are you talking about?

basic decency of, by butterfly effect, helping someone on the internet regulate their emotional responses to something of their own making maybe, at most

[SableHahma]

Snip

I'm not sure there's anything you've said here that I don't whole heartedly agree with. And I hope it's understood that anything I say is not personally directed at you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter. And please make no mistake, because I have no sympathy for her voice actor other than sympathy for her receiving death threats as no one should ever have to deal with that. I do not particularly like Sena Bryer, I vehemently disagree with some of the takes I've seen of her. I think she was far to inexperienced to voice such a prevalent character in the story, and it's shows in her poor performance. I have very strong feelings regarding Wuk Lamat, and none of them as positive.

My point is simply that there have been people in this thread who have referred to Sena as he, and that is not okay. Regardless of my own feelings of her and my own lack of respect for her it is still intolerance. Respecting someone's identity is basic human decency. I understand completely how exhausting the whole pronoun thing can be sometimes. I make a point of being very patient about it because I know it can be so easy to slip up and call someone the wrong thing. I am only ever bothered by it if someone is intentionally calling me the wrong thing. All I ask is that people TRY. It may seem like something irrelevant to you, and that is completely okay, but to someone who will likely have to spend their entire life fighting just to be seen as they truly are it can be very upsetting and feel dehumanizing.

Again, none of this directed at you specifically, I'm simply talking in a very general since and replying to multiple post with this single one.

[FlowerMilk]

I'm not sure there's anything you've said here that I don't whole heartedly agree with. And I hope it's understood that anything I say is not personally directed at you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter. And please make no mistake, because I have no sympathy for her voice actor other than sympathy for her receiving death threats as no one should ever have to deal with that. I do not particularly like Sena Bryer, I vehemently disagree with some of the takes I've seen of her. I think she was far to inexperienced to voice such a prevalent character in the story, and it's shows in her poor performance. I have very strong feelings regarding Wuk Lamat, and none of them as positive.

My point is simply that there have been people in this thread who have referred to Sena as he, and that is not okay. Regardless of my own feelings of her and my own lack of respect for her it is still intolerance. Respecting someone's identity is basic human decency. I understand completely how exhausting the whole pronoun thing can be sometimes. I make a point of being very patient about it because I know it can be so easy to slip up and call someone the wrong thing. I am only ever bothered by it if someone is intentionally calling me the wrong thing. All I ask is that people TRY. It may seem like something irrelevant to you, and that is completely okay, but to someone who will likely have to spend their entire life fighting just to be seen as they truly are it can be very upsetting and feel dehumanizing.

Again, none of this directed at you specifically, I'm simply talking in a very general since and replying to multiple post with this single one.

What I find really weird is that I have literally never run into someone in game who doesn't understand this basic concept, it's genuinely never been a problem for me and my trans girlfriend, and why we enjoy this game and its community so much. These forums and my experience in game are like night and day. I'm sure when you said you were shocked by the comments you saw here it was probably because your experience is the same as mine/my girlfriend's. I truly have no idea where these people are in game, because I have personally never seen them.

[DoomRyder]

What I find really weird is that I have literally never run into someone in game who doesn't understand this basic concept, it's genuinely never been a problem for me and my trans girlfriend, and why we enjoy this game and its community so much. These forums and my experience in game are like night and day. I'm sure when you said you were shocked by the comments you saw here it was probably because your experience is the same as mine/my girlfriend's. I truly have no idea where these people are in game, because I have personally never seen them.

People are allowed to speak freely here without consequence of getting their hard work in game compromised and banned for speaking freely.
This is what happens when you actually allow people to speak their mind and a harsh reality of the true feelings of people you are next to you are exposed.

Just because people aren't saying it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. You're free to live in the fantasy that people like this don't exist but I'm sorry to say it's a majority.

[Midare]

I am only ever bothered by it if someone is intentionally calling me the wrong thing. All I ask is that people TRY. It may seem like something irrelevant to you, and that is completely okay, but to someone who will likely have to spend their entire life fighting just to be seen as they truly are it can be very upsetting and feel dehumanizing.

Again, none of this directed at you specifically, I'm simply talking in a very general since and replying to multiple post with this single one.

I can sympathize to some degree with the dislike of not being seen but personally, I'm old, and after spending my youth attempting for that I just realized... no one is seen for who they are.

I simply care if those I care about see me for who I am.

Mind you, I'm not telling you how to handle that feeling, everyone handles things in their own way, and I'm not in the same situation as you since each individual is their own world, I'm just expressing my own answer to that particular dilemma.

But also, more importantly. Just because someone can't do that for whatever reason, or they are set on not wanting to do that, don't take it to heart for yourself, you'll save yourself a lot of stress, that's my opinion.

What I find really weird is that I have literally never run into someone in game who doesn't understand this basic concept, it's genuinely never been a problem for me and my trans girlfriend, and why we enjoy this game and its community so much. These forums and my experience in game are like night and day. I'm sure when you said you were shocked by the comments you saw here it was probably because your experience is the same as mine/my girlfriend's. I truly have no idea where these people are in game, because I have personally never seen them.

You on the other hand...

Have shown again and again a lack of common decency and level headedness, not to mention lack of self awareness.

When you see behavior you don't personally agree with, you double down which achieves nothing.

And when someone tries to explain that what you do it's bound to backfire, you call it a proof that they hate the community.

I get it, when all you got it's a hammer, everything starts looking an awful lot like nails, but that approach usually doesn't work for long.

[SwadTheFrog]

I'm not sure there's anything you've said here that I don't whole heartedly agree with. And I hope it's understood that anything I say is not personally directed at you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter. And please make no mistake, because I have no sympathy for her voice actor other than sympathy for her receiving death threats as no one should ever have to deal with that. I do not particularly like Sena Bryer, I vehemently disagree with some of the takes I've seen of her. I think she was far to inexperienced to voice such a prevalent character in the story, and it's shows in her poor performance. I have very strong feelings regarding Wuk Lamat, and none of them as positive.

My point is simply that there have been people in this thread who have referred to Sena as he, and that is not okay. Regardless of my own feelings of her and my own lack of respect for her it is still intolerance. Respecting someone's identity is basic human decency. I understand completely how exhausting the whole pronoun thing can be sometimes. I make a point of being very patient about it because I know it can be so easy to slip up and call someone the wrong thing. I am only ever bothered by it if someone is intentionally calling me the wrong thing. All I ask is that people TRY. It may seem like something irrelevant to you, and that is completely okay, but to someone who will likely have to spend their entire life fighting just to be seen as they truly are it can be very upsetting and feel dehumanizing.

Again, none of this directed at you specifically, I'm simply talking in a very general since and replying to multiple post with this single one.

I think there is one thing to note - in that from certain folks and certain countries from eastern europe, the whole trans thing is basically entirely rejected, so you're almost never going to see them going with it. And complaining about it isn't going to do anything as if it was coming from people that solely reside in american/western european countries, either - it''s just an entirely different perspective from entirely different cultures, and a lot of what I'm seeing from people that are not going along with the pronoun thing is that they are from european servers. It's very important to note that a lot of the current perspective on the matter is heavily lead by the US and a few western european countries - it's not global in the slightest, but it's easy for folks to forget that given that they're immersed in American culture 24/7.

Not saying it's right or wrong, mind - just noting that the extreme differences in culture is why you're seeing quite a bit of pushback on the matter on the topic - mixed together with people that just want to start up flaming.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

Yes. Act as if we all don't know what I mean when I say "pronoun thing".

If you do nothing but respond to people disingenuously, no one will ever take you seriously. Which I'd imagine you'd want, but who knows.

I recently read a response to the paradox of tolerance that said this:
"The paradox of tolerance disappears if you look at tolerance not as a moral standard, but as a social contract.
If someone does not abide by the terms of the contract, then they are not covered by it."
That means that there is no moral obligation to show tolerance to the intolerant. You can't benefit from a contract you refuse to sign.

[Lizvette]

this legit turned into twitter