#WukLamatMustDie

[Zackneifein]

MSQ was not relevant for either of these games other than setting the ambience most of all, if you hate the new areas in current FFXIV... which you most likely do not.. unlike EW... all you got is more or less broken worlds for half the areas and one is a place where only the wol can go... another is planet broken a part and finally a garlemeld in ruins that you can't use ofr much either... but probably a bit better main story.

You are either totally oblivious thinking that you and your friends doing hardcore content or roleplaying are the majority or you are trolling.

That can't be anything else.

[Themarvin]

You are either totally oblivious thinking that you and your friends doing hardcore content or roleplaying are the majority or you are trolling.

That can't be anything else.

Millions of players stays subscribed when there is no MSQ to do?

[Zackneifein]

Millions of players stays subscribed when there is no MSQ to do?

You still don't understand what I'm trying to say.

The vast majority of players are casual ones, whose main attraction is the MSQ. That's also why most of the communication is about the MSQ, why what's work on youtube isn't gatheting guide or RP video but people reacting to the said MSQ.

Those casual player can still remain subscribed between two patches because they can always connect time to time to level up a job or for events or anything the game has to offer.

But it doesn't change the fact that the MSQ is the main attraction. You remove it, you lose most of the players.
If you remove gathering, crafting, housing of the game or endgame activities, FF14 won't be as good anymore yes, but it could still work.

[Sivante]

But it doesn't change the fact that the MSQ is the main attraction. You remove it, you lose most of the players.
If you remove gathering, crafting, housing of the game or endgame activities, FF14 won't be as good anymore yes, but it could still work.

I see your point here, but I think it may be a bit unfair. FFXIV is 99% MSQ gate-locked. If you removed the MSQ, we don't actually even know what this game would look like. It has married the MSQ to the gameplay for so long that removing it would leave people without a knee-jerk response out to the sheer shock.

FFXIV is MSQ, I woefully agree. I think it's a mistake the way it's done, and it means that when they release an expansion with questionable story it irrevocably damages all of FFXIV.

I am just saying how it is, if you play an MMO and it gets an expansion then most of the buy is to be able to access content in that expansion and the story just being a side bonus, most content creation comes with interacting with other players in an MMORPG, being silly about everything else is just like any other hate speech...

Factually, objectively, and I'd argue even legally, incorrect.

"Most content creation comes from interaction with[...]" Yes, interaction is key in MMO, but interaction is not 'content', and it is not 'created content' either: it's spontaneous reaction from interaction. If I go to Alabama and someone says "The end is nigh" I don't think "Wow whoever paid him to say that is off the mark by a few years." This interactions are not 'content creation' at any stage. If they were, every single FFXIV player could sue CBU3 for their royalties on their share of the interactions that were sold as part of the expansion. Companies don't advertise it that way for a damn good reason.

"Being silly about everything else is just like any other hate speech." Just, wow: so the only valid complaints are hate speech? If I buy a house and you take away my bathroom, I'm gonna be pissed. Sure I didn't buy the house for that bathroom, but you robbed me of that bathroom and I paid for it. This is hate speech?

You need to touch grass, ASAP. You're in no position to tell others what they have a right to expect for their purchase, you're no advocate of the brand, and you're definitively not well-versed in the concept of what 'content' even is. Please refrain from spreading this nonsense, the topic is already charged enough without your misinformation addled argument.

[Zackneifein]

I see your point here, but I think it may be a bit unfair. FFXIV is 99% MSQ gate-locked. If you removed the MSQ, we don't actually even know what this game would look like. It has married the MSQ to the gameplay for so long that removing it would leave people without a knee-jerk response out to the sheer shock.

FFXIV is MSQ, I woefully agree. I think it's a mistake the way it's done, and it means that when they release an expansion with questionable story it irrevocably damages all of FFXIV.

I agree with you for the first of your point. It's unfair to compare MSQ and the rest of the game, but that was my point here.
I think that the MSQ is why FFXIV is so popular. I think that if you take everything that exist in FFXIV, you put it in another game and make it work perfectly well without the MSQ, it will, at best, be "sustainable" but not come any close to FFXIV popularity.

FFXIV is what it is now because like it has been said before, it has been treated as a Final Fantasy game before being treated as an MMO. A game with heavy storytelling where your character is organically well included despite being a custom mute character.

And yes, that's why I'm concerned for the future (concerned, not pessimistic yet) because I think they are taking the wrong path with 6.x and Dawntrail by removing the "organically well included" part and included "main NPC" like Zero and Wuk Lamat and making de facto the MSQ divisive (which like you said, is a big risk).

[Sivante]

I agree with you, and I share your concern. Hopefully we'll be proven wrong, but it's hard to keep that hope up sometimes.

[Themarvin]

I see your point here, but I think it may be a bit unfair. FFXIV is 99% MSQ gate-locked. If you removed the MSQ, we don't actually even know what this game would look like. It has married the MSQ to the gameplay for so long that removing it would leave people without a knee-jerk response out to the sheer shock.

FFXIV is MSQ, I woefully agree. I think it's a mistake the way it's done, and it means that when they release an expansion with questionable story it irrevocably damages all of FFXIV.



Factually, objectively, and I'd argue even legally, incorrect.

"Most content creation comes from interaction with[...]" Yes, interaction is key in MMO, but interaction is not 'content', and it is not 'created content' either: it's spontaneous reaction from interaction. If I go to Alabama and someone says "The end is nigh" I don't think "Wow whoever paid him to say that is off the mark by a few years." This interactions are not 'content creation' at any stage. If they were, every single FFXIV player could sue CBU3 for their royalties on their share of the interactions that were sold as part of the expansion. Companies don't advertise it that way for a damn good reason.

"Being silly about everything else is just like any other hate speech." Just, wow: so the only valid complaints are hate speech? If I buy a house and you take away my bathroom, I'm gonna be pissed. Sure I didn't buy the house for that bathroom, but you robbed me of that bathroom and I paid for it. This is hate speech?

You need to touch grass, ASAP. You're in no position to tell others what they have a right to expect for their purchase, you're no advocate of the brand, and you're definitively not well-versed in the concept of what 'content' even is. Please refrain from spreading this nonsense, the topic is already charged enough without your misinformation addled argument.

Not really, MSQ is a ver small part of the game, yes it is supposed to be a spearhead or the likes, but at the end of the day MMORPG's is mostly about players interacting eith each other doing content, and that includes myself, on both the casual side of the game and a bit toward the hardcore side as well to it.

[Sivante]

Not really, MSQ is a ver small part of the game, yes it is supposed to be a spearhead or the likes, but at the end of the day MMORPG's is mostly about players interacting eith each other doing content, and that includes myself, on both the casual side of the game and a bit toward the hardcore side as well to it.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I said the game is 99% MSQ Gate-locked, and that's me being generous to your side of the argument. Go create a new character with the goal of never completing any MSQ. The game is, at least 99% gate-locked behind MSQ. The game is built, managed, presented, and hallmarked by the MSQ. I don't like it much either but FFXIV is a story first, an MMO second: That's why everything is gated behind MSQ. If you doubt it, watch Yoshi fan-boy over story elements, sell story elements, sell memorabilia of story elements, and continue to advertise and build the game around the story elements. There's easily 100+ hours of MSQ cutscenes, dialogue, and exchanges alone not even to speak of the amount of time you'd need to clear all the MSQ from level 1 to current content.

You made the claim that:

"I am just saying how it is, if you play an MMO and it gets an expansion then most of the buy is to be able to access content in that expansion and the story just being a side bonus, most content creation comes with interacting with other players in an MMORPG, being silly about everything else is just like any other hate speech..."

· People having an opinion about what they buy still isn't hate-speech.
· Interacting with other players is still not 'content.'
· You're conveniently forgetting the RPG part of MMORPG.

You're attempting to convince people that the MMORPG, built by the company reknowned for story telling and depth in their games, bragged about across the internet for its storylines, actually has very little story content compared to everything else involved in the purchase price. I'd wager that they spent more time developing the story, the voice acting, and the atmospheric story-telling of this expansion than they spent even discussing mechanics. I'm equally surprised to hear you belittling that voice-acting, given I assume your hate-speech rhetoric is somehow butting up against defending the VA of Wuk Lamat and what she's going through, which is awful and she shouldn't have to deal with it.

It may be a small part of your experience but it's curious how you're dismissing other peoples experience so readily while citing your own like you're thumping a holy book. And for Pete's sake, stop calling things hate-speech so flippantly. It's disrespectful to them, to you, and serves to normalize actually harmful hate-speech just so you can win an internet argument. Have more respect.

[Themarvin]

You still don't understand what I'm trying to say.

The vast majority of players are casual ones, whose main attraction is the MSQ. That's also why most of the communication is about the MSQ, why what's work on youtube isn't gatheting guide or RP video but people reacting to the said MSQ.

Those casual player can still remain subscribed between two patches because they can always connect time to time to level up a job or for events or anything the game has to offer.

But it doesn't change the fact that the MSQ is the main attraction. You remove it, you lose most of the players.
If you remove gathering, crafting, housing of the game or endgame activities, FF14 won't be as good anymore yes, but it could still work.

I am quite the casual player, and honestly MSQ is not the thing that moves me to most in keeping on playing the game, everything else is, thinking that that 99% of the game is all rounded around the story is pure BS, and is quite a bit inaccurate, it show how much not in touch you are with the game as well as the general player base as it is.

I do play through the story, I don't skip the cut scenes and I read through as well as paid for that part of the game as well as it is.

MSQ, is not the main attraction, it is a very small part of the game, however it does drive a part of the game story wise, but to be honest, it is a very small impact on what do I and like to do inside the game.

The key thing for any MMORPG is interaction with players, and that is why I am not on these fora very often either, in fact it may be the the 0.001% that spend their entire life on these fora instead of actually playing the game..