Why I'm Cancelling My Sub

[royox]

The dramatic Viper changes: A button that before put a debuff on target now puts a buff on you that does exactly the same but now flows more naturally into the rotation.

I don't main Viper but i leveled it up till lvl100 and I use it for the expert roulettes just for the fun and the way it was before it looked a LOT like the old Ninja's Futon when it forced to stop everything you were doing to just use the mudras and futon yourself. And that was NOT fun.

[EdwinChucklenuts]

Plays for you the world's smallest violin

[ovIm]

The dramatic Viper changes: A button that before put a debuff on target now puts a buff on you that does exactly the same but now flows more naturally into the rotation.

Factually wrong, I am afraid. The removal of Noxious Gnash has not only noticeably changed Vipers filler rotation (previously, you wanted to avoid overcapping NG while minimizing the use of Dread Fangs), it also broke how another part of Vipers toolkit interacted with the class as a whole (Dreadwinder applied NG as well, meaning a player had to make a conscious effort to decide whether to start a filler with Dread Fangs, or wait for Dreadwinder to come off cooldown).
Now, instead of considering NG bufftimer and DW cooldown, you just alternate combo starters, with no further thought required.

People that do not notice a change after the patch have played Viper wrong. Which is not a bad thing, mind you, but while those players gameplay was unchanged from the 7.05 change, those players that took the time to learn how NG works were stripped of something. This bit of mini gameplay, while not overly major, was something people enjoyed.

[royox]

Factually wrong, I am afraid. The removal of Noxious Gnash has not only noticeably changed Vipers filler rotation (previously, you wanted to avoid overcapping NG while minimizing the use of Dread Fangs), it also broke how another part of Vipers toolkit interacted with the class as a whole (Dreadwinder applied NG as well, meaning a player had to make a conscious effort to decide whether to start a filler with Dread Fangs, or wait for Dreadwinder to come off cooldown).
Now, instead of considering NG bufftimer and DW cooldown, you just alternate combo starters, with no further thought required.

People that do not notice a change after the patch have played Viper wrong. Which is not a bad thing, mind you, but while those players gameplay was unchanged from the 7.05 change, those players that took the time to learn how NG works were stripped of something. This bit of mini gameplay, while not overly major, was something people enjoyed.

While I agree with you, seeing how the devs are managing the "job difficulty" nowadays i think they were going to kill either the Noxious Ghash or the positionals, and personally I prefer to keep the positionals (they kinda make sense in my crossbars now). I feel that, even with the job being now absolutely braindead, it's a job with a LOT of buttons to manage while there is a lot of stuff happening on screen so I guess their intention was to make the job more, how to say it..."Summonerish"? Its super busy in buttons but 0 thinking is required out of the positionals for the "extra dps mile". Kinda works for me if this is the way to go from now on and that means that the difficulty will come in the form of the mechanics and content.

But I get you, for me it was just an annoyance but I could play with it (I just don't like keeping track of debuffs as a personal thing).

[EdwinChucklenuts]

While I agree with you, seeing how the devs are managing the "job difficulty" nowadays i think they were going to kill either the Noxious Ghash or the positionals, and personally I prefer to keep the positionals (they kinda make sense in my crossbars now). I feel that, even with the job being now absolutely braindead, it's a job with a LOT of buttons to manage while there is a lot of stuff happening on screen so I guess their intention was to make the job more, how to say it..."Summonerish"? Its super busy in buttons but 0 thinking is required out of the positionals for the "extra dps mile". Kinda works for me if this is the way to go from now on and that means that the difficulty will come in the form of the mechanics and content.

But I get you, for me it was just an annoyance but I could play with it (I just don't like keeping track of debuffs as a personal thing).

You don't gotta suck up to this guy, stand on bidness man. It makes the class flow so much smoother now without having to try to keep uptime on some lame ass debuff, now it's just entirely CD based. If you wanna sweat don't look for it in your class design look for it in the content you play. I loved the flow of Viper before but I especially do now. And this is coming from someone who has 0 interest in doing content higher than Extremes. If I wanted to be worrying about shit like "uptime" and "2 minute windows" and shit I'd be sweatin' with a static.

[ovIm]

While I agree with you, seeing how the devs are managing the "job difficulty" nowadays i think they were going to kill either the Noxious Ghash or the positionals, and personally I prefer to keep the positionals (they kinda make sense in my crossbars now). I feel that, even with the job being now absolutely braindead, it's a job with a LOT of buttons to manage while there is a lot of stuff happening on screen so I guess their intention was to make the job more, how to say it..."Summonerish"? Its super busy in buttons but 0 thinking is required out of the positionals for the "extra dps mile". Kinda works for me if this is the way to go from now on and that means that the difficulty will come in the form of the mechanics and content.

But I get you, for me it was just an annoyance but I could play with it (I just don't like keeping track of debuffs as a personal thing).

Honestly, I would have preferred to lose the positionals over the NG minigame there was. Its especially disappointing since Yoshi-P has admitted that they have gone too far into the real of oversimplification in the past, only to oversimplify Viper with something that they cooked up not even a week after early access launched.
What was appealing to me was the mix of it both being busy and requiring at least a bit of attention to what I am doing. It made the class engaging to me, actually fun, and from what I see in the forums, many people agree. Losing NG has changed nothing for those not playing optimally, but it severely dampened the fun for many others, which makes me question the decision.

[Bonoki]

The changes to Viper aren't that bad. There are other jobs with far worse issues, yet Viper—being a brand-new job that hasn't even been out for a month—is somehow considered the breaking point. I find that perspective a bit absurd. Many jobs are experiencing a mix of "If you don't like it, go play something else" and a trend toward simplification. This isn’t a problem exclusive to Viper. If anything, now is the perfect time for the developers to adjust the flow and feel of Viper while it's still new, before its identity is fully established. Maybe I'm in the minority, but it seems to me that the concerns about Viper's changes are greatly exaggerated compared to the issues other jobs are facing.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t express their feelings or provide feedback—it's great that many are doing so. However, I find it unrealistically absurd when people say, "I unsubscribed because of Viper." I believe the concerns about Viper's changes are being overstated compared to the many other serious issues the game is currently facing. Simplification is a widespread problem affecting all jobs, not just Viper.

[Reinha]

I find it unrealistically absurd when people say, "I unsubscribed because of Viper." I believe the concerns about Viper's changes are being overstated compared to the many other serious issues the game is currently facing. Simplification is a widespread problem affecting all jobs, not just Viper.

It's not so absurd when you consider that those who are unsubscribing are probably just as aware of those other issues as you are and were looking at Viper as the last remaining opportunity for fun. If all other jobs are simplified even further and "go play something else" sucks too, isn't that more of reason to quit than if the other jobs were still fun to play?

[Bonoki]

It's not so absurd when you consider that those who are unsubscribing are probably just as aware of those other issues as you are and were looking at Viper as the last remaining opportunity for fun. If all other jobs are simplified even further and "go play something else" sucks too, isn't that more of reason to quit than if the other jobs were still fun to play?

They should have said, "I quit because the game is too simple and jobs are unfun," instead of, "I quit because of Viper." Since they didn't, the argument of "I quit because of Viper" seems absurd to me.

[Dante131]

They should have said, "I quit because the game is too simple and jobs are unfun," instead of, "I quit because of Viper." Since they didn't, the argument of "I quit because of Viper" seems absurd to me.

even if not i kinda understand peoples anger. Geez i had to struggle every expansion with ast reworks since SE dont know where they wanne put this class. So people did a month of full training and preparation and trying to be good with a class and then they decide to take away from that something which look minor but is a part of what they liked then i can see why so many are angry. And yeah like Reinha said it might be last drop. Sadly DT evolves into a shadowlands direction so many seem to hate it and the changes which happen :/ i also learned a bit of Viper but i am not best on it. I think its a fun class and while playing i never thought geez hopefully the remove anything from this job