Viper changes prove 8.0 will not add job complexity

[ovIm]

Just because it’s not fun for ya’ll doesn’t mean it’s not fun for someone else. Some people enjoy simplicity and others enjoy complexity.

What I can say is if you want intricate complexity, MMOs are not the area you should be looking in for your gaming needs.

Yes, but people were already able to enjoy the class while playing it sub-optimally (overcapping or dropping NG), while others enjoyed what NG brought to the table. So, this patch changed pretty much nothing for group A, but made group B very unhappy. That can't be it, chief.

[Leonus]

Yes, but people were already able to enjoy the class while playing it sub-optimally (overcapping or dropping NG), while others enjoyed what NG brought to the table. So, this patch changed pretty much nothing for group A, but made group B very unhappy. That can't be it, chief.

So, from what I recall, no matter what happened group B would have been unhappy. The only way to make group B happy was to keep it exactly how it was, the status quo, at the “exclusion” of group A.

None of the changes made forcibly exclude group B, it just further includes group A. Group B then will make a choice on whether or not they like the changes and wether to stay or hop ship… but they are not and never were excluded.

That’s my interpretation. I myself and more for making the content harder and the jobs consistent. I also don’t have a problem with NG, but it was not and never was interesting to me. It was just something I had to do and tried to do flawlessly. They could have just extended the timer for me and I would have rolled with that too. What bothers me is when people have a hard time grasping mechanics when the jobs have been streamlined. That’s what bores me about the game.

[ovIm]

So, from what I recall, no matter what happened group B would have been unhappy. The only way to make group B happy was to keep it exactly how it was, the status quo, at the “exclusion” of group A.

None of the changes made forcibly exclude group B, it just further includes group A. Group B then will make a choice on whether or not they like the changes and wether to stay or hop ship… but they are not and never were excluded.

That’s my interpretation. I myself and more for making the content harder and the jobs consistent. I also don’t have a problem with NG, but it was not and never was interesting to me. It was just something I had to do and tried to do flawlessly. They could have just extended the timer for me and I would have rolled with that too. What bothers me is when people have a hard time grasping mechanics when the jobs have been streamlined. That’s what bores me about the game.

Group B would have remained happy were no changes done, Group A would have remained happy as they would not have changed their playstyle.

You are trying to misunderstand what I am saying on purpose, and honestly, I have no interest in explaining things further. Enjoy your time :v:

[Leonus]

Group B would have remained happy were no changes done, Group A would have remained happy as they would not have changed their playstyle.

You are trying to misunderstand what I am saying on purpose, and honestly, I have no interest in explaining things further. Enjoy your time :v:

You aren’t seeing a different perspective other than your own on purpose. So I agree, no further discussion between us is needed.

[LisseyCrowe]

So, from what I recall, no matter what happened group B would have been unhappy. The only way to make group B happy was to keep it exactly how it was, the status quo, at the “exclusion” of group A.

None of the changes made forcibly exclude group B, it just further includes group A. Group B then will make a choice on whether or not they like the changes and wether to stay or hop ship… but they are not and never were excluded.

That’s my interpretation. I myself and more for making the content harder and the jobs consistent. I also don’t have a problem with NG, but it was not and never was interesting to me. It was just something I had to do and tried to do flawlessly. They could have just extended the timer for me and I would have rolled with that too. What bothers me is when people have a hard time grasping mechanics when the jobs have been streamlined. That’s what bores me about the game.

... What?

If you don't think removing any part of a job excludes the people who enjoyed said part, you cannot claim that the people who didn't enjoy said part were being excluded before. Playing Devil's Advocate only works if you do it in good faith.

[Leonus]

... What?

If you don't think removing any part of a job excludes the people who enjoyed said part, you cannot claim that the people who didn't enjoy said part were being excluded before. Playing Devil's Advocate only works if you do it in good faith.

That’s not how that works. Exclusion involves gating access, not opening it. Not liking something because something is removed is a choice. Nothing they did stops you or causes issue with you playing. It only affected your enjoyment which is a personal/individual thing.

[Morr_Ar]

Who was excluded with the prior version of VPR and what aspects of its design were exclusionary?

[Leonus]

Who was excluded with the prior version of VPR and what aspects of its design were exclusionary?

The people who wanted to play it but found it difficult to in harder content because of constant hot bar staring and “business”? This inevitably leads to player exclusion because… you know… people are assholes.

[Supersnow845]

The people who wanted to play it but found it difficult to in harder content because of constant hot bar staring and “business”? This inevitably leads to player exclusion because… you know… people are assholes.

High end content has expectation of competence, you simply cannot remove friction in high end content, it just doesn’t work. In casual content it doesn’t even matter anyway if you dropped noxious

There is no end to this stupid removal of friction argument, I don’t know if your actual main is GNB but let’s assume it is, what if I complained that the cartridge system is excessive staring at my hotbar and I went into no mercy without double down, obviously bad design cartridges need to go

[LisseyCrowe]

That’s not how that works. Exclusion involves gating access, not opening it. Not liking something because something is removed is a choice. Nothing they did stops you or causes issue with you playing. It only affected your enjoyment which is a personal/individual thing.

That’s not how that works. Exclusion means gating access, no access was being gated. Two can play dictionary.

You can play any job you want at any skill level you want. If people are mean, report them. For someone supporting a "different perspective other than your own", yours sure seems pretty closed off. "These people had less fun than they do now! Why can't you accept that your enjoyment went down in exchange!".

Just say you don't want to track the debuff.