Brainstorming DPS rotation changes for healers

[LuciferMournstar]

People keep bringing up the possibility that people will hyperfocus on their damage buttons and refuse to do their main role if more damage buttons are added. Well guess what? It's already happening as it is with 1 single filler button so the massively simplified damage kit isn't forcing people to be good at healing either, so why be so stuck on keeping it?

Also, I want to point out that in HW (you know, the height of complexity?), content was being cleared regularly in DF, the most you'd get is a healer apologising for double-tapping Cleric Stance, then everyone has a laugh and moves on. Where was all the SCHs that mass-wiped every dungeon they were in because they had more than 1 DoT and 1 filler? Where was all the WHMs that couldn't heal properly because they had 3 DoTs?

People need to stop pushing this boogeyman that adding a couple extra buttons will immediately wipe the brains of every healer and turn them into DPS monkey brain. The people who are DPS monkey brain will wipe you no matter what the damage kit looks like.

In the words of Mimir from GoW : "Bollocks brother, respectfully, bollocks." As some who went through that crap in HW, there was more than "The most you'd get is a healer apologising for double-tapping Cleric Stance". You had "barse 95th percentile" healers, and absent minded healers that went melee brain regularly.

[Aravell]

In the words of Mimir from GoW : "Bollocks brother, respectfully, bollocks." As some who went through that crap in HW, there was more than "The most you'd get is a healer apologising for double-tapping Cleric Stance". You had "barse 95th percentile" healers, and absent minded healers that went melee brain regularly.

Refer to the last line, DPS monkey brain healers will wipe you REGARDLESS of what their kit looks like. You could give them literally 1 single button to press to deal damage and they would STILL wipe you.

So why even bother designing around them? The dev team doesn't design around GNBs who say they don't want to mitigate during their burst. The dev team doesn't design around a NIN who says they don't want to Feint during burst. Why is only the healer role uniquely designed to accommodate idiots and failing at doing so?

[TheDustyOne]

You had "barse 95th percentile" healers, and absent minded healers that went melee brain regularly.

This will be true regardless of whether there's 1 button for DPS or 20, designing jobs to force bad players to be good doesn't make them good, it only makes good players bored. Why is it that healers can't have anything beyond a nuke and DoT while the tanks get a full damage rotation with their mitigation? I've met a lot of tanks (especially GNB and DRK) that will not mitigate because it would interrupt their burst (Continuation is soooo much more important than Nebula you guys!), but we don't deign to remove those buttons because we rightly know that tanks wouldn't stand for that. So why is it that healers are told to suffer with a bland kit for the sake of bad players?

The same damage that a healer heals is the same damage that a tank mitigates. They're both responsible for the party, yet one can actually have fun when its primary responsibility doesn't need attention while the other is told to press Glare another 150 times that run.

[LuciferMournstar]

This will be true regardless of whether there's 1 button for DPS or 20, designing jobs to force bad players to be good doesn't make them good, it only makes good players bored. Why is it that healers can't have anything beyond a nuke and DoT while the tanks get a full damage rotation with their mitigation? I've met a lot of tanks (especially GNB and DRK) that will not mitigate because it would interrupt their burst (Continuation is soooo much more important than Nebula you guys!), but we don't deign to remove those buttons because we rightly know that tanks wouldn't stand for that. So why is it that healers are told to suffer with a bland kit for the sake of bad players?

The same damage that a healer heals is the same damage that a tank mitigates. They're both responsible for the party, yet one can actually have fun when its primary responsibility doesn't need attention while the other is told to press Glare another 150 times that run.

I'll take "How to defeat your own argument for $500, Alex." It'll make decent players bad, because they'll fuck up healing focusing on DPS more often as they'll be forced to, bad will always be bad, but at least it's SALVAGEABLE. While healers that can pull it off, will do nothing but FFlog their numbers, and gatekeep for ego stroke. Knock it off with the "whataboutism" with the tanks, and address the actual issue. Everyone knows what this is about, healers who want to grandstand again. Lower tank and DPS self sustainability, sure, so healers have more to work on. That is it. Anything DPS related is simply a desire to grandstand numbers.

You have Red Mage (Oh look you main class). If you want DPS with a side of healing, there you go. Healers are HEALING WITH A SIDE OF DPS. If you want more DPS, play a fucking DPS class.

[Supersnow845]

I'll take "How to defeat your own argument for $500, Alex." It'll make decent players bad, because they'll fuck up healing focusing on DPS more often as they'll be forced to, bad will always be bad, but at least it's SALVAGEABLE. While healers that can pull it off, will do nothing but FFlog their numbers, and gatekeep for ego stroke. Knock it off with the "whataboutism" with the tanks, and address the actual issue. Everyone knows what this is about, healers who want to grandstand again. Lower tank and DPS self sustainability, sure, so healers have more to work on. That is it. Anything DPS related is simply a desire to grandstand numbers.

You have Red Mage (Oh look you main class). If you want DPS with a side of healing, there you go. Healers are HEALING WITH A SIDE OF DPS. If you want more DPS, play a fucking DPS class.

Tanks- literally able to completely remove the healer from the equation

Playerbase- this is fine

Healers- hey can we please actually do something to contribute to this raid

Playerbase- you just wanna grandstand


I love how healers wanting to be more than an enforced burden on their party is grandstanding but tanks being 2 roles in one is totally fine

If complex DPS was nothing but grandstanding with FFLOGS all the DPS should be fine with 11111111 as well, otherwise hey you are just grandstanding

[LuciferMournstar]

So basically your argument boils down to “healing is enough for me so it should be enough for everyone”

Not everyone struggled to stance dance on sephirot EX, you don’t have the right to dictate the entire role to suit your personal skill cap

Hypocrisy, thy name is Supersnow845. Guess what buttercup, that's exactly what you're trying to do. "I'm not struggling, so i'm dictating nobody else should either to suit my personal skill cap." Congratulations, you're better than me and others at healer. Want a fucking cookie? Actually yeah, yeah you do. You want a cookie on FFlogs, bragging rights, and gate keeping to feel better.

[Supersnow845]

Hypocrisy, thy name is Supersnow845. Guess what buttercup, that's exactly what you're trying to do. "I'm not struggling, so i'm dictating nobody else should either to suit my personal skill cap." Congratulations, you're better than me and others at healer. Want a fucking cookie? Actually yeah, yeah you do. You want a cookie on FFlogs, bragging rights, and gate keeping to feel better.

Because unlike you I understand that a higher skill ceiling without raising the skill floor isn’t inheritantly exclusionary

You just for some reason entered content that expects competence in your role, couldn’t meet that level of expected competence and your “solution” is to nuke the complexity of the job

[TheDustyOne]

Hypocrisy, thy name is Supersnow845. Guess what buttercup, that's exactly what you're trying to do. "I'm not struggling, so i'm dictating nobody else should either to suit my personal skill cap." Congratulations, you're better than me and others at healer. Want a fucking cookie? Actually yeah, yeah you do. You want a cookie on FFlogs, bragging rights, and gate keeping to feel better.

So because you're upset that other people are better than you at a game, you want their toys taken away.

Rather than getting better at the game or sticking to content that better suits the way you played healers, you opted to throw a tantrum until the game suited your needs. What a child.

[TheDustyOne]

I'll take "How to defeat your own argument for $500, Alex." It'll make decent players bad, because they'll fuck up healing focusing on DPS more often as they'll be forced to, bad will always be bad, but at least it's SALVAGEABLE. While healers that can pull it off, will do nothing but FFlog their numbers, and gatekeep for ego stroke. Knock it off with the "whataboutism" with the tanks, and address the actual issue. Everyone knows what this is about, healers who want to grandstand again. Lower tank and DPS self sustainability, sure, so healers have more to work on. That is it. Anything DPS related is simply a desire to grandstand numbers.

You have Red Mage (Oh look you main class). If you want DPS with a side of healing, there you go. Healers are HEALING WITH A SIDE OF DPS. If you want more DPS, play a fucking DPS class.

Welp, let's flip it for you here. Let's assume that bad tanks force Square to remove most of PLDs kit and leave with nothing but Fast Blade and Holy Spirit, let's also give every DPS a way to mitigate all tankbusters because after all, a tank might DIE and now a poor DPS has to take the buster.

Now, you can't ask for your DPS skills and responsibility back because: they'll f*ck up tanking focus on DPS more often as they'll be forced to, bad will always be bad, but at least it's SALVAGEABLE. While tanks can pull it off, will do nothing but FFLog their numbers gatekeep for ego stroke. Knock it with the "whataboutism" with the healers and address the actual issue. Everyone knows what this is about, tanks who want to grandstand again. Lower DPS mitigation abilities sure, so tanks have more to work on. That's it. Anything DPS related is simply a desire to grandstand numbers.

I played RDM and enjoy its healing utility yes, but it's still not my primary role as that job. SCH had what I liked if I wanted some good healing interactivity with a decent DPS kit back in SB. Healers aren't "healing with a side of DPS", they're just gimped DPS with overbloated healing kits, and you'd know that if you've been playing for as long as you claim.