You pull you tank question.

[Thurmnmurmn]

For those saying it's not against TOS.
"・Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well."

[Thurmnmurmn]

If theres a discussion after the DPS pulls and the DPS keeps doing it, then at that point the DPS can be reported for nuisance behavior or obstructing gameplay but the initial act of YPYT is indeed 100% against TOS.

[noelregnard]

I don't think hall of the novice ever taught me to take enmity off dps, it did teach to use ranged tools to grab enemies from healer before they get hit due to them healing. It also teach to use ranged tools to pull groups so you don't get overwhelmed and to use aoe when there is 3 or more targets and how to position yourself for it... But double checking seems it did try to teach to use aoe then the combo on multiple enemies, i just had other guides in my head so kept using aoe ^^"
And checking the dps exercises i don't see any of them being about taking enmity off the healer. But more to support the group as a whole by focusing down enemies that target the weakest member. both have the same mission but completely different priority in the novice exercise.

It teaches you to grab aggro of your teammates who just happen to be a healer in the tutorial.
For the DPS check the reinforcement tutorial where extra enemies would spawn and go for the healer while the tank is too busy eating dirt.

Either way it's an outdated and terrible tutorial and anyone who uses it as the basis for their arguments should be disregarded in a similar fashion

[TBerry]

So what about the crap guides to FF: Tanking then?

It teaches you to grab aggro of your teammates who just happen to be a healer in the tutorial.
For the DPS check the reinforcement tutorial where extra enemies would spawn and go for the healer while the tank is too busy eating dirt.

Either way it's an outdated and terrible tutorial and anyone who uses it as the basis for their arguments should be disregarded in a similar fashion

Now you really just want to normalize it by forcing it.

[Moxxi]

I admit i don't think i ever did the dps hall before and after returning to the game.. But this is the quote for that one for dps:
"This exercise will teach you how to deal with enemy reinforcements. As the battle progresses, new foes will appear on the field. These sudden arrivals will target your weakest comrade, so you must be quick to eliminate them! Work with your allies to defeat the enemy, and we can move on to the next training exercise. "

While tank have all this "For this exercise, ye'll learn to deal with reinforcements. Sometimes there're latecomers to the battle, so ye've got to stay alert. If ye notice a new foe arrive, don't give in to panic! Keep calm, an' pick the enemy up with your usual tools! Are they too far away for a combination? Then reel ‘em in with a [ranged attack]! Once ye've got everyone nice an' close, you can switch to [AoE attack] to keep that enmity flowin'! Defeat every enemy on the field, an' I'll consider yer lesson learned."

Friendly AI have kind of always been shitty so i would likely excuse that, but the hall do teach a tiny bit of fundamentals to get you going despite being rather outdated, i may just be less casual in some sense that i always look up guides to make sure i do something right afterwards.. like mistakes to avoid and such. Something it seems many early level don't do... Seen so much nonsense from all sides of the trinity while getting some dps jobs to 50-60.
Like many have said.. lots of reasons why a tank may not do the typical wall to wall pull, and in my own case if dps suddenly pulled lets say entire first room in aurum vale i would panic and cause a wipe, bardam's vale i had poor experience with as a healer due to tank rushing before i could keep up (At the time did not know wall to wall were a thing) so when i get back there again i would be extremely careful myself..

[BokoToloko]

So what about the crap guides to FF: Tanking then?


Now you really just want to normalize it by forcing it.

Wall to wall pulls have been the norm since ARR. Walls between pulls were literally enforced on dungeon design by SE because people was often blasting the entirety of the mobs between bosses without an issue. It's even older than healers being required to DPS during downtime (another concept some people still struggle getting through their dense skulls too).

Tanks trying to enforce single pulls are the ones forcing their gameplay as norm and YPYT want to normalize this attitude by straight up griefing (you need to go out of your way to not take the other mobs by either turning off tank stance or refusing to AoE).

[TBerry]

Wall to wall pulls have been the norm since ARR. Walls between pulls were literally enforced on dungeon design by SE because people was often blasting the entirety of the mobs between bosses without an issue. It's even older than healers being required to DPS during downtime (another concept some people still struggle getting through their dense skulls too).

Tanks trying to enforce single pulls are the ones forcing their gameplay as norm and YPYT want to normalize this attitude by straight up griefing (you need to go out of your way to not take the other mobs by either turning off tank stance or refusing to AoE).

It's about DPS pulling for tanks, not W2W.
Stop trying to shift goal posts.

[Sol_Seppy]

As someone who loves to tank dungeons, "You pull, you tank" is just incredibly silly. Especially if you're gonna throw your toys out of the pram and let the whole party die as a result. Like you are literally wasting your OWN time to be petty. Just regain aggro and get over it.

[BokoToloko]

It's about DPS pulling for tanks, not W2W.
Stop trying to shift goal posts.

The VAST majority of cases where the DPS are pulling ahead of tank and the tank is throwing a tantrum is precisely because the DPS are expecting the W2W and the tank is going down the route of "nuh-huh". And even where there are DPS overtaking the tank when they're doing W2W, the problem only needs the tank to keep doing their normal rotation you're already meant to do as tank (AoE) during pulls meaning the only thing that can get hurt by that is the tank's ego. The healer doesn't even have to go massively out of the way to heal them because they have more than enough tools to cleave some healing to that DPS with oGCDs. The only way to do YPYT is either by running from the mobs, refusing to AoE or turning tank stance offs, all of them running counter against the normal tank gameplay loop. And the amount of DPS who pull and run away from the tank is a very small minority.

Stop trying to pretend there is any issue with DPS pulling when there is none in either scenerio, except those that people who pull YPYT and their enablers create out of thin air. There is not a single justification for YPYT in dungeons. It's an action derived purely from spite and a hurt ego with clear ill intent because, again, you DO have to go out of your way to make them tank the mobs. And no amount of ToS discussion will ever change that.

[RinaB]

It doesn't happen all the time but I have noticed a trend of people pulling for me. I'm sprinting and doing everything. I don't see the point of it, it just makes it harder for me to pick up mobs. How much faster am I supposed to go here? It's stupid. Stop doing it.