Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Volgia]

Let those folks looking for that Dark Souls action have their super fast-paced dungeons, and then make a second difficulty with a little slower pace for the rest of us.

I beg of you people to play or watch someone play Dark Souls so you know the difference between these games.

[Besame]

We are not asking you fanboys to alter YOUR raid choicess as they are. There are many of us with issues that can make the game we love less enjoyable for us and would perhaps enjoy an enhancement we can choose to make our lives a little easier. Why would you hate that so much? We leave you alone and we enjoy the game....

[Xenovel]

One of the best things about FF14 was the kind and accepting playerbase... but i guess Warcraft's failure has brought in the dregs of the gaming populace that only see other players as a burden rather than fellow adventurers now. I liked the casual difficulty and kind people, but now that is gone and we are headed right to the same "E-SPORTS GET GUD KEKE KEK WHAT LOUZER!!!1!!" grave that Warcraft has found itself in.

I am absolutely trying my hardest to discern the boss' movements to figure out what is happening but I am also trying to keep my pictomancer (I am still learning the rotation at 100) doing damage and all this crap on screen, on the floor, in the air, off the sides of the boss platforms... its just too much... I feel embarrassed to even try to learn along side people who apparently have figured out telepathy to know what the hell is going on in these encounters. What was wrong with the dungeons in the story being for people that wanted to see the story? Not only do I end up resigning in shame 90% of the time (learning nothing as half the time, I am clueless what even killed me) but I am now behind a BRICK WALL that I cannot climb. Or I suppose it is better to say I am ashamed to feel like I am wasting everyone's time in a normal dungeon needing to be rezzed multiple times per fight because I have absolutely no idea what is going on now.

The cactus boss in tender valley, I just took the L on today... the evasion box is right there.. but then I am standing in DOUBLE AOE... and every single time I die. Laugh if you want, i feel ashamed already and don't even want to play anymore. I am so beaten down by cheap "YoU ThOugHt YoU We'Re SafE hUh?" deaths over these last three dungeons I just want to cry for real. What was so wrong with having a casual difficulty for people learning their class... Half the time I am not even able to cast as a pictomancer unless I have the instant cast up because YOU NEVER GET A CHANCE TO BREATHE EVER.

Ironically this message is toxic as hell. Can you stop screaming "WoW bad go back to WoW!" every time someone says something?

[Nepharius]

The response to this thread is entirely predictable. Instead of approaching with complaints and demands, post a video and show your struggle. Ask for help in this community game. I promise you'll receive more genuinely helpful replies. What specifically is roadblocking you? Start a more constructive conversation.

[Shenlao]

Don't lose hope and learn. The good thing about ff14 fights are they have so little rng you can literally learn to predict what you need to do over time. At the worst of cases you can stop pressing buttons foresee you need to be at xyz spot in 5 seconds move there beforehand and then start pressing buttons again.
If you're trying to learn to just react to things of course 14 is a bad game for that just because of how snapshotting works. It's better to learn how to premove correctly on all the mechanics.

[SoftCarryBoy]

"Use Trusts" "Get Good" "You don't need to do this content lol."

You know what kind of players will dominate this game if this trend continues. I have seen many a game experiencing this.

It is simple: more grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> competitiveness and toxicity prevail; less grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> collaboration and friendship grow.

Yoshi-p has a choice, so do we all.

To those who mock casual players who have better things to tend to in real life: What are you afraid of?

The falsehood of the sense of superiority? From a Small Small dungeon? Your refusal to understand the Main Story?

You are entitled to enjoy the game your way, but not entitled to talk about other players in such a mean fashion.

Get good in your etiquette, please. How other players play the game is none of your business.

I am afraid of spending another 3 years falling asleep while doing my roulettes because the content is boring as hell and not entertaining. Hope this answers why it's good that we're getting better fight designs now. If I can dodge all these fast aoes when playing at 300ms ping, then so can others with similar handicaps.

[zattowangai]

Oh no, I actually have to pay attention for the first time in 6 years!! This is turning into Dark Souls!! Waaah waaaaahhhhh. And no, having a job irl isn't an excuse, I have 2 jobs and volunteer locally, git gud.

[SoftCarryBoy]

One of the best things about FF14 was the kind and accepting playerbase... but i guess Warcraft's failure has brought in the dregs of the gaming populace that only see other players as a burden rather than fellow adventurers now. I liked the casual difficulty and kind people, but now that is gone and we are headed right to the same "E-SPORTS GET GUD KEKE KEK WHAT LOUZER!!!1!!" grave that Warcraft has found itself in.

I am absolutely trying my hardest to discern the boss' movements to figure out what is happening but I am also trying to keep my pictomancer (I am still learning the rotation at 100) doing damage and all this crap on screen, on the floor, in the air, off the sides of the boss platforms... its just too much... I feel embarrassed to even try to learn along side people who apparently have figured out telepathy to know what the hell is going on in these encounters. What was wrong with the dungeons in the story being for people that wanted to see the story? Not only do I end up resigning in shame 90% of the time (learning nothing as half the time, I am clueless what even killed me) but I am now behind a BRICK WALL that I cannot climb. Or I suppose it is better to say I am ashamed to feel like I am wasting everyone's time in a normal dungeon needing to be rezzed multiple times per fight because I have absolutely no idea what is going on now.

The cactus boss in tender valley, I just took the L on today... the evasion box is right there.. but then I am standing in DOUBLE AOE... and every single time I die. Laugh if you want, i feel ashamed already and don't even want to play anymore. I am so beaten down by cheap "YoU ThOugHt YoU We'Re SafE hUh?" deaths over these last three dungeons I just want to cry for real. What was so wrong with having a casual difficulty for people learning their class... Half the time I am not even able to cast as a pictomancer unless I have the instant cast up because YOU NEVER GET A CHANCE TO BREATHE EVER.

Never played WoW with any seriousness but thank you for showing what a narrow mind you must have if you think toxic = HAS TO BE FROM WoW

I'm kind and accepting in that I am always open to answer questions and talk strategies with anyone struggling in dungeons, provided they're willing to ask and accept advice and constructive criticism. If you're too embarrassed to try and learn things in an expansion not even a month old, that's a you issue.

[Carin-Eri]

Why do a lot of those posts advocating for harder content need to be so rude and/or condescending? There's enough hard content in the game, it's almost as if you don't want any casual players in the game anymore, or as if those players are beneath you?

There are people in this world, believe it or not, who just want to have fun because it's just a game. Just fun. They don't want to be frustrated by a ton of wipes, don't want to invest hours to learn exactly where to stand in every dungeon at what mechanic, and they certainly don't want a game to be a second job. I for one rather invest time in getting better at my real life job than wiping in some MSQ-dungeon. Also, the amount of dungeons in the game is huge, and I cannot even remember all the mechanics - so most of them being not that hard is actually a good thing.

But the solution to the problem can be very easy, there's multiple possibilities:
- Let the MSQ-dungeons, or in general any dungeon we're forced to do, be easy, and make the optional ones hard. For me for example, the difficulty level of EW was just enough (minus a few bosses where I still struggle with some mechanics).
- Make the msq-dungeons easy and implement a "expert"-version of those dungeons. Should not be that big of a problem.

There, problem solved. You guys can have your hard content, and us casuals can have the easier stuff.

Good question. In fact, the other thread has basically become 40 pages (at the time of this post) of players commenting "get good", "skill issue" and variations thereof. And many of them are just outright overly aggressive and/or insulting - which is, in my opinion, completely unnecessary and unwarranted.

[Borascythe]

The posts dripping with condescension from the "Git Gud" crowd are a stain upon what many consider one of the better MMO communities. It's really gross.

In any case, no solution is ever going to please everyone. It's impossible. Furthermore, adjusting the game to fit the needs and wants of people that participate on the official forums is largely a wasted effort. I wager the majority of the player base does not participate in the forums. Any adjustments made are being made to cater to the vocal minority on one extreme or the other.

My personal opinion is MSQ content should be fairly easy and largely stress-free. Normal raids, alliance raids, optional normal trials, and extreme trials should be fairly difficult and not be faceroll. Higher-level content should, obviously, be very challenging.

Fact is, you're never going to please everyone, but there are plenty of players that sub and do new content and then unsub. They come back months later having forgot some things. They struggle with the basics and die constantly. No one is happy in that situation.

I didn't find the new content too crazy challenging. Especially the dungeons. The final trial was a bit much for a normal trial, but better gear and future Echo will alleviate the challenge. Just like Nidhogg.

The TL;DR: It's impossible to please everyone. Some portion of the playerbase will always be unhappy.