You pull you tank question.

[Basteala]

God I haven't heard this since WoW days. This would be like me refusing to DPS in a pull whenever a tank lost aggro. People need to give it a rest.

[Cortawraith]

that's what I meant with the issue stemming from the middle ages of MMO's ^^
It's an old obsolete mindset that aims only to punish ppl who defy the tanks ego-trip.
Like I already stated, I don't mind who is pulling. It can even be a help sometimes. (especially my healers may pull whenever and whatever they want, though this rarely happens since I'm pulling as much as I can if the party composition seems right)

[KisaiTenshi]

that's what I meant with the issue stemming from the middle ages of MMO's ^^
It's an old obsolete mindset that aims only to punish ppl who defy the tanks ego-trip.
Like I already stated, I don't mind who is pulling. It can even be a help sometimes. (especially my healers may pull whenever and whatever they want, though this rarely happens since I'm pulling as much as I can if the party composition seems right)

If you are doing PUG content, the polite thing is to let the tank lead. If you're doing content with players you know the play style of then go ahead and do what they're going to be okay with.

The problem always comes back to the entire "Tank presses the gas, Healer presses the brakes" way the dungeons work. A tank can attempt to pull everything, but if the healer isn't literately right behind them, them they are going to die if they miss one of their mitigations. Meanwhile, the Healer sets the pull size, which is typically "1 or 2" depending on the healer. It's usually easier to pull more with a WHM, because they can fire off Benediction, and Holy, which buys enough time to let the DPS drop their own nukes on it. The other healers can not do this.

The only player that should be pulling the boss is the main tank.

[BokoToloko]

Seems the forum forgot my sub ran out but...

Did all DT dungeons with Trusts, which are intentionally programmed to perform worse than the average player, for the first run. Forced W2W as a NIN and the only wipe I had during trash pulls was because I stood on too many AoEs (too busy blasting). Tried the same with other expansion Trusts or Duty Support and it was no problem. If NPCs can bear with tanking double packs of mobs and healing the damage they deal, players have literally ZERO excuses to not be able to do the same.

I've tanked all dungeons pre-DT, I've healed all dungeons pre-DT. I know enough of each role to say what's plausible to handle and, the reality after years and years of the game is that people is not just unable to do bigger pull, they're blatantly unwilling because of reasons. Maybe they think a wipe will delete their characters, maybe they think the tanks will be oneshot from 100 to 0 because of an invisible tank delete mechanic,... But, unless you're too busy watching a YT video mid-dungeon to use your toolkit or didn't bother getting your job stone or gearing up semi-decently (no, running anything from 80 onwards in Scaevan gear is not OK) you're more than able to handle it and if I have to be rude and force W2W to make you see that, I will in any situation and role I am.

The only courtesy I'll afford to random tanks and healers is an initial suggestion of pulling more mobs, reassuring they'll be able to handle it, and give tips to improve gameplay (not using the basic healing GCDs like Cure1/Bene1/Physics, cycle the mitigations, use AoE dps as healer whenever the tank isn't in immediate risk of dying while you're bereft of healing oGCDs...). But I've done enough roulettes to be tired of appealing to the lowest common denominator. Expecting W2W isn't parsing or rushing. It's basic competence. And anyone who thinks expecting something as basic as that is toxic has no business playing online games that require teaming up. Step up your game. And if you think that's elitist or parsing, go back to the first statement: Trusts CAN handle W2W and they're supposed to perform worse than the average, so not being able to handle that much places you further below the average.

[Avina]

My solution is easy. If I tank and they pull, I take aggro. I don't care about who is pulling. I have a job and I'm doing my job...

[Lannybaby]

YPYT is such a dumb concept. Whenever I'm tanking for a dungeon and I get a dps running ahead to pull aggro, I prefer to have fun with it than complain. I would always type something like "yes, my minion, go forth and fetch my enemies! Bring them to your king!" I typically get a laugh or two. Sometimes the puller gets annoyed and tells me to hurry up and pull instead since I'm the tank. So, I would say "but you're so good at it, little doggy! Now go and do the one thing you're good at and bring me my meat!"

It's more amusing to poke fun at the little things than get offended by them.

[Thracia776]

Dpends in the situation.
If i ask the Healer and the Healer want short pulls i would get angry that they undermine the preference of those that need to handle it.

If nothing got mentioned in before i just take it as a sign to pull more but really...its not the DPS who should decide that its between Tank and Healer.

Asking healers lmao

[KisaiTenshi]

Trusts CAN handle W2W and they're supposed to perform worse than the average, so not being able to handle that much places you further below the average.

Trusts are less squishy than players, and they will never step in an AOE unless you cause them to be knocked into one. You can quite literately, not heal on the trash mobs one pull at a time and the tank will always survive.

It's been true, since at least late 2.x that most tank+healer combinations can deal with two-pulls, but that is still making an assumption that you get a healer who is actually going to heal and not sit there and green DPS. The Trusts and Command missions pretty much do not require you to heal because the Trusts avoid the AOE's, and the defense of the Trusts/command squad is technically steeper to compensate for the player playing DPS rather than Tank or Healer. The Healer AI is pretty broken in trusts because any character that has a heal, will use theirs, not just the healer. Alisae, Alphinaud, Y'shtola and Urianger will all heal the player, regardless of the role they are in, and G'raha will always do healing actions even when not in the healer role.

When you tank with the trusts, you can pretty much ignore that they exist, nothing is going to 1-shot you. When you heal with the trusts, you basically have to second-guess one of the DPS positions, because if you don't move immediately when they move, you're likely going to get hit with a vulnerability stack, which means any additional hit is going to result in restarting the boss fight.

While I don't expect the trusts to be perfect, the trusts are clearly designed to play to the game's intended player behavior, so if you push it with double pulls or wall-to-wall pulls, the AI will try to keep up, but the AI doesn't have player attack combos, they have their own versions of skills that have different potencies from what I've seen.

[4clubbedace]

YPYT is so stupid, just aoe twice and theyre ripped off the dps anyways, who cares, if the melee is smart them using armms length saves me a defensive anyways

[Karkarov]

YPYT is so stupid, just aoe twice and theyre ripped off the dps anyways, who cares, if the melee is smart them using armms length saves me a defensive anyways

No offense but if they were smart they wouldn't be pulling mobs to begin with. The tanks who think this doesn't matter must be the laziest players of all time. If you are doing your job right people should be having to work to actually be in front of you to pull before you do. Do your jobs as the tank and pull the mobs, it just makes everything easier and smoother when the tank pulls. Only in FF14 would a legit group negative behavior be called "ok" because of "tank ego".