The healer issue? I really dunno what to put here.

[Mr_Gyactus]

So I had a couple of questions revolving around the FFXIV Healer Strike thing I saw, what was it all about? What do healers really want?

I mean I mained SGE through EW and ended up really liking it but admittedly it is a unique healer from what I have seen, is there something wrong with the other healers I am missing?

I don't know what healers really want.

Devs have made things complicated, with huge damage to recover asap, healer check, more dps abilities.
What I do want is shorter cooldown for some ability and more "spell speed".

[Isala]

I don't know what healers really want.

Devs have made things complicated, with huge damage to recover asap, healer check, more dps abilities.
What I do want is shorter cooldown for some ability and more "spell speed".

They really haven't, though. Outside of a few specific cases, the vast majority of content is still "Faceroll your 1 key until the obviously telegraphed AoE damage happens." And at that point, unless that obvious AoE damage is also tied to a mechanic, you just hit an oGDC, or maybe pop a Lily on WHM. And if it IS tied to a mechanic, it either does no extra damage if it's just a "stand in the safe spot", which requires no more healing than just the normal AoE, or a "prepare your swiftcast res" for someone who screwed it up, which still isn't any actual increased effort, because we've had 100 levels of people standing in things, and needing to be scraped off the floor.

And where are these DPS abilities? Cause I'm not seeing them. Are these DPS abilities in the room with us? Cause man, we're still packing less DPS abilities than we had in ARR, HW, or even SB.

[Mr_Gyactus]

They really haven't, though. Outside of a few specific cases, the vast majority of content is still "Faceroll your 1 key until the obviously telegraphed AoE damage happens." And at that point, unless that obvious AoE damage is also tied to a mechanic, you just hit an oGDC, or maybe pop a Lily on WHM. And if it IS tied to a mechanic, it either does no extra damage if it's just a "stand in the safe spot", which requires no more healing than just the normal AoE, or a "prepare your swiftcast res" for someone who screwed it up, which still isn't any actual increased effort, because we've had 100 levels of people standing in things, and needing to be scraped off the floor.

And where are these DPS abilities? Cause I'm not seeing them. Are these DPS abilities in the room with us? Cause man, we're still packing less DPS abilities than we had in ARR, HW, or even SB.

Outside of an expansion?

Lily is absolutely not enough to heal DT aoe, the usual aoe damage in DT is ~50% max HP, this means ~800 spell potency. you can reach 800 spell potency only with cure III + primary indulgence, and PI has 60 sec CD, while the aoe are more frequent.
This means I cannot simply spam glare and use aff. rapture when I see a "less than 100%" HP bar.
It's been a long time since I've been forced to use Cure II and not Aff. Solace.

In ARR we had aero I , aero II, Holy nova, Stone
In DT we have dia, Afflatus misery, Holy nova, glare, assize, sacred sight.

[LibitIncarne]

In ARR we had aero I , aero II, Holy nova, Stone
In DT we have dia, Afflatus misery, Holy nova, glare, assize, sacred sight.

You also had Thunder back in ARR.

So WHM has 1 single-target button, 1 multi-target button, an AoE, an oGCD, 3 charges of a better GCD given by a 2 minute ability that increases their damage, and a gauge-filled attack every minute.

What about tanks? They're meant to tank damage, not focus on dealing damage. What do they have?
- A 3step combo
- A 2step AoE combo
- A gauge that fills when you do your combo
- 2 oGCD attacks
- A 1 minute timer on a button that increases your damage and (Gives you 3 free hits of the gauge attack and boosts its damage (WAR/DRK) or Gives you a powerful button to hit (PLD/GNB/WAR))
- (DRK/GNB) A 2 minute timer on a button that deals a ton of damage overall (And in GNB's case is a much stronger version of its typical seperate 3step combo it gets every 30 seconds)
- (PLD/WAR) A 1 minute timer on a button that gives you a powerful attack (And is the actual 1 minute burst in PLD's case)
- At least two buttons that directly give them health or a meaty shield that is effectively health.
- The ability to use at least one of those buttons on another party member to heal and/or shield them.

But they're melee jobs. What about DPS casters? What do they generally get?
Black Mage is too unique to talk about, and more than half of its players hate the new changes to the job.
Summoner has a total of 5 oGCDs every time it gets to cast Summon [Greater Primal], and has an entire new set of buttons to play with in each of its 3 Primal phases.
Red Mage has a proc system for its main combo (Of 5 buttons, and each hit gives gauge) that makes it interesting to play, and a 6step combo during its burst (7 during Manafication). Plus a party buff, personal buff, 2 charges of both gap closers and creators each, and a 55 second personal buff that makes Jolt III an instantcast skill, and makes the next Aero/Thunder/Impact instantcast while giving it a guaranteed proc.
Pictomancer, if you strip away the repainting part for a moment, has a 3step combo, 3step aoe combo (both of which give gauge), a gauge spender that allows it to cast its stronger 3step single-target or aoe combos, 2 charges of a centered aoe that grants the ability to fire a centered line aoe, a self-buff that lets it use 3 instant cast centered aoes on a third button, a 2 minute party buff, a second gauge system that lets it cast a more powerful spell as a combo ender for the 3step or save it for when it has its buffs... and a new button at level 100 that deals a ton of damage.

Huh. That sounds like what the tanks have.

Being a healer is boring because every other job gets new fun buttons to deal damage with and the best you get is a single button to press during your burst.
Unlike every other job, healer's damage potential is directly affected by the competence of everyone else in the party.

[Isala]

Outside of an expansion?

Lily is absolutely not enough to heal DT aoe, the usual aoe damage in DT is ~50% max HP, this means ~800 spell potency. you can reach 800 spell potency only with cure III + primary indulgence, and PI has 60 sec CD, while the aoe are more frequent.
This means I cannot simply spam glare and use aff. rapture when I see a "less than 100%" HP bar.
It's been a long time since I've been forced to use Cure II and not Aff. Solace.

In ARR we had aero I , aero II, Holy nova, Stone
In DT we have dia, Afflatus misery, Holy nova, glare, assize, sacred sight.

I'm assuming you haven't hit 100 yet, so you wouldn't have access to our 2 minute barrier, but even without that, you're missing proper CD rotation with "PI is a 60 second CD." Because you can rotate the Lily with PI, Assize, Asylum, or even your 2 minute CD to just instantly fill bars. You will always have something to top people off, outside of mistakes, and even then, a Thin Air Medica 3, will give you a nice cushion for the couple people who ate something. Also, while a 3 minute DC, our Lilybell is extremely powerful at topping people off for multihits, or can be triggered manually for a massive burst.

And as others have posted, you're missing the cross class skills we used to have access to, as well as Fluid Aura.

[Mr_Gyactus]

I'm assuming you haven't hit 100 yet, so you wouldn't have access to our 2 minute barrier, but even without that, you're missing proper CD rotation with "PI is a 60 second CD." Because you can rotate the Lily with PI, Assize, Asylum, or even your 2 minute CD to just instantly fill bars. You will always have something to top people off, outside of mistakes, and even then, a Thin Air Medica 3, will give you a nice cushion for the couple people who ate something. Also, while a 3 minute DC, our Lilybell is extremely powerful at topping people off for multihits, or can be triggered manually for a massive burst.

And as others have posted, you're missing the cross class skills we used to have access to, as well as Fluid Aura.

Thunder was removed after 2.1. It was clearly an error. Cleric stance was a "buff/debuff", not an ability dealing damage.
Fluid aura: I forgot this spell. it was a 150atk, 5yalm range with 30s cd and a very boring pushback. Even if you think it was good (a free attack) it required to go in melee range. Situational.
The cross class: probably you don't remember anymore because 10 years are gone or you weren't with us, but the 5 abilities taken were all debuff (like eye x eye) + swiftcast-surecast or something to improve your defense.
In short: as White Mage I used stone, and sparingly, because MP management was an issue.


Let's return on topic. If you write "because you can use this and that..." well, this means lily aren't enough anymore and this is exactly what I wrote.
In DT we are forced to use EVERY ability we got, and do not waste them. As you wrote you need 2-3 different abilities or you fail.

Anyway:
Lily + PI << Cure III + PI;
Asylum right now is bad. SE should add duration time OR (even better) potency (100->150/200).
Don't get the thin air. Maybe you meant swiftcast?

[Isala]

Thunder was removed after 2.1. It was clearly an error. Cleric stance was a "buff/debuff", not an ability dealing damage.
Fluid aura: I forgot this spell. it was a 150atk, 5yalm range with 30s cd and a very boring pushback. Even if you think it was good (a free attack) it required to go in melee range. Situational.
The cross class: probably you don't remember anymore because 10 years are gone or you weren't with us, but the 5 abilities taken were all debuff (like eye x eye) + swiftcast-surecast or something to improve your defense.
In short: as White Mage I used stone, and sparingly, because MP management was an issue.


Let's return on topic. If you write "because you can use this and that..." well, this means lily aren't enough anymore and this is exactly what I wrote.
In DT we are forced to use EVERY ability we got, and do not waste them. As you wrote you need 2-3 different abilities or you fail.

Anyway:
Lily + PI << Cure III + PI;
Asylum right now is bad. SE should add duration time OR (even better) potency (100->150/200).
Don't get the thin air. Maybe you meant swiftcast?

Blizzard II was a cross class, often used in place of how expensive Holy was, to do damage, and also bind. And trust me. I remember. We literally had a very in depth conversation about this in another thread, including how Scholar used to have access to Aero.

And we're not really forced, but you mentioned needing to meet the increased heals. If we really want to get into the weeds with this, in the sort of content we're talking about, we can leave the DPS at not cap, and also your Cure III example is a waste. It's DPS negative, compared to using a Lily instead. And no, I meant Thin Air, because nothing else in our toolkit has such a high MP cost, so burning it on the 1k MP spell is pretty much where all of my TA charges would go. I tend to leave one up for any sort of "OOPSIE" on the DPS side.

And this is just WHM we're talking about. This isn't the other classes, like SCH, that can just straight up let Eos top people off after an Indom. Numerically, the dungeons might hit slightly harder, but it still hasn't changed a single thing about how mindnumbingly boring it is to spam 1 until an AoE happens, and then popping an oGCD, or DPS positive Lily on WHM.