Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[ThorneDynasty]

Alphinaud didn't fail in ARR. And once the patches started, he kept getting worse, with no indication of comeuppance incoming till later. It wasn't even clear at the time that his character flaws were intended as flaws by the writers till the patch story started to show the cracks forming beneath his feet. *Everyone* hated him to varying degrees up to that point, and maybe after for a while til he proved himself.

And yet, look at our boy now.

Wuk Lamat's character has good bones. And half the annoyance at her is the spotlight stealing, which has mostly nothing to do with her characterization and everything to do with narrative structure choices. They can turn it around, as long as someone realizes they need to. I have hope, yet.

Alphinaud literally calls us a dumb brute to our face in 2.0.

He 100% had intended flaws.

[Alleluia]

Alphinaud literally calls us a dumb brute to our face in 2.0.

He 100% had intended flaws.

Thought that was a patch moment? In 2.0 itself, he was just annoying, but not in a way that made you sure it was going to go anywhere and get addressed. In the patches, when he gets more arrogant, but the other characters are also showing awareness of it during and in between quests, then you know its going somewhere and its a clear set of flaws that are being addressed.

[Tehmon]

Thought that was a patch moment? In 2.0 itself, he was just annoying, but not in a way that made you sure it was going to go anywhere and get addressed. In the patches, when he gets more arrogant, but the other characters are also showing awareness of it during and in between quests, then you know its going somewhere and its a clear set of flaws that are being addressed.

The difference between Alphinaud and Wuk Lamat is that Alphinaud doesn't go through any significant character arc during ARR until the very end, and the game doesn't pretend otherwise. He is just that smug arrogant holier-than-thou brat throughout ARR until he gets humbled severely and made to eat dirt. He doesn't hog screentime in any sense of the word, and we get plenty of time without Alphinaud tagging along.

Meanwhile Wuk Lamat is actively going through her character arc during 7.0 which is the focus of the entire story, and the game is actively pushing you to see her supposed growth all the way to the end. Her story is done, and it was a terrible story. Or are you suggesting we need several more patches of the writers trying desperately to redeem this joke of a character by forcing more storylines onto her and making her the focus once more? Give me a break, even you don't believe that's the way to go.

The intriguing storylines and narrative beats that existed since 6.55 didn't bear any fruit, and there is no intrigue left in Wuk Lamat. The only thing they could muster up now is if she wants to connect with her biological father, which would honestly just be more '' family this family that '' bs which there is plenty of already in DT.

[Alleluia]

The difference between Alphinaud and Wuk Lamat is that Alphinaud doesn't go through any significant character arc during ARR until the very end, and the game doesn't pretend otherwise. He is just that smug arrogant holier-than-thou brat throughout ARR until he gets humbled severely and made to eat dirt. He doesn't hog screentime in any sense of the word, and we get plenty of time without Alphinaud tagging along.

Meanwhile Wuk Lamat is actively going through her character arc during 7.0 which is the focus of the entire story, and the game is actively pushing you to see her supposed growth all the way to the end. Her story is done, and it was a terrible story. Or are you suggesting we need several more patches of the writers trying desperately to redeem this joke of a character by forcing more storylines onto her and making her the focus once more? Give me a break, even you don't believe that's the way to go.

The intriguing storylines and narrative beats that existed since 6.55 didn't bear any fruit, and there is no intrigue left in Wuk Lamat. The only thing they could muster up now is if she wants to connect with her biological father, which would honestly just be more '' family this family that '' bs which there is plenty of already in DT.

"Even" me? What are you assuming about my opinions, now? lol

I do think, if her character is going to be salvaged from the state the writing has left it in, it will need to have more story attached, yes. Sorry? As I said, I think her Naruto-esque character has the makings of someone enjoyable, if its handled well. I don't hate her on principle.

I don't like how she was given the "solve everything" button a few times, and I don't like how they'd only cut to the WoL in a lot of scenes cus they realized they haven't shown us in a while, and even then it was 90% just to have us nod at her latest emotional appeal in approval, and then go right back to her being the voice of the story.

A lot of my problem with the story isn't Wuk's personality. Its the fact she was the main character instead of us. And I don't mean that in a "I don't like side characters getting the spotlight" kinda way. I've enjoyed plenty of other characters being the center of attention. I love anything with G'raha in it, I enjoyed Krile's story, and Erenville's Shaaloni adventure with me was my favorite part of the xpac. But they have their role and we have ours and Wuk crossed into our lane without earning it. Halfway thru the story, she's saying stuff like how much she's learned from me and how she wants me to call her a pet name and stay in her kingdom permanently, when I'm just sitting there like "... I could have not been there for half of this. I don't hate you or anything, but when did we really bond???" And then there's the final fight (and to a lesser issue the mamook trial) where she just comes in with the win button at the end. The final battle is particularly bad cus the other two that were there had as much, if not more, reason to connect with the final boss; and also had more reason to fight tooth and nail to get back in the arena since they had a deeper bond with us.

But that's not the character's personality that is at fault, that's the writers treating her like a writer's pet and also not plotting well.

[Tehmon]

"Even" me? What are you assuming about my opinions, now? lol

I do think, if her character is going to be salvaged from the state the writing has left it in, it will need to have more story attached, yes. Sorry? As I said, I think her Naruto-esque character has the makings of someone enjoyable, if its handled well. I don't hate her on principle.

I don't like how she was given the "solve everything" button a few times, and I don't like how they'd only cut to the WoL in a lot of scenes cus they realized they haven't shown us in a while, and even then it was 90% just to have us nod at her latest emotional appeal in approval, and then go right back to her being the voice of the story.

A lot of my problem with the story isn't Wuk's personality. Its the fact she was the main character instead of us. And I don't mean that in a "I don't like side characters getting the spotlight" kinda way. I've enjoyed plenty of other characters being the center of attention. I love anything with G'raha in it, I enjoyed Krile's story, and Erenville's Shaaloni adventure with me was my favorite part of the xpac. But they have their role and we have ours and Wuk crossed into our lane without earning it. But that's not the character's personality that is at fault, that's the writers treating her like a writer's pet.

What exactly can salvage this character, like I'm genuinely curious, what plot would you throw at her for the post patches, as her flaws are ironed out already? Because the only way I see to make her likable or even '' decent '' at this point is giving her a massive humiliation ritual and throwing her far, FAR away from WoL's presence.

[Alleluia]

What exactly can salvage this character, like I'm genuinely curious, what plot would you throw at her for the post patches, as her flaws are ironed out already? Because the only way I see to make her likable or even '' decent '' at this point is giving her a massive humiliation ritual and throwing her far, FAR away from WoL's presence.

I mean, you could try distance and just not touch on her for a while, then start fresh after the next expac gives us some distance.

But, barring that and dealing with her again soonish, we could also see another attempt at her having to deal with the realities of rule, this time handled differently. Vrtra could maybe become a mentor for the two Vows and provide his wise insight to her.

Also, the story ends with Solution Nine being unsure about boy-king Gulool and Wuk has stepped forward as his regent, so they seem like they're already going to touch on that plot. Solution Nine is going to be a thorny situation due to, presumably, them having to come to terms with no longer harvesting souls. No where for the memory part to go now, so the whole process is in question. Plus, you know, ethics. I'd like to see Koana and her disagree on it, with Koana on the "Nope, this is wrong and impractical" side and Wuk taking the tact that she took in the last two zones and just be wishy-washy on the point, cus she values peace above all else and also she doesn't necessarily like to think too deeply. And the story should ultimately have Koana ultimately be right and Wuk gaining more reason.

Also, I'd like to explore Koana's backstory and have her be a supportive sister to him. Having her be the support instead of the supported could help her character too.

Koana just generally being the one to teach Wuk things now, so the Vow of Resolve gets tempered by some Reason. Koana already learned the lessons of Resolve in 7.0 itself and has a personality he's working on and growing in to b/c of it.

... I have ideas. >_> lol

[Tehmon]

I mean, you could try distance and just not touch on her for a while, then start fresh after the next expac gives us some distance.

But, barring that and dealing with her again soonish, we could also see another attempt at her having to deal with the realities of rule, this time handled differently. Vrtra could maybe become a mentor for the two Vows and provide his wise insight to her.

Also, the story ends with Solution Nine being unsure about boy-king Gulool and Wuk has stepped forward as his regent, so they seem like they're already going to touch on that plot. Solution Nine is going to be a thorny situation due to, presumably, them having to come to terms with no longer harvesting souls. No where for the memory part to go now, so the whole process is in question. Plus, you know, ethics. I'd like to see Koana and her disagree on it, with Koana on the "Nope, this is wrong and impractical" side and Wuk taking the tact that she took in the last two zones and just be wishy-washy on the point, cus she values peace above all else and also she doesn't necessarily like to think too deeply. And the story should ultimately have Koana ultimately be right and Wuk gaining more reason.

Also, I'd like to explore Koana's backstory and have her be a supportive sister to him. Having her be the support instead of the supported could help her character too.

Koana just generally being the one to teach Wuk things now, so the Vow of Resolve gets tempered by some Reason. Koana already learned the lessons of Resolve in 7.0 itself and has a personality he's working on and growing in to b/c of it.

... I have ideas. >_> lol

I don't like the idea of Wuk Lamat getting people to mentor her once more, but the Solution 9 running a wedge between Koana and Wuk Lamat would be decent, while allowing some commentary on the issues of cultural relativism. But this just seems like another plotpoint where Wuk Lamat comes out victorious with having all the right answers in the end, especially when the values of multiculturalism and respecting and understanding other cultures in general have been such strong themes throughout the expansion almost to it's detriment (outside of the philosophical debate one can have about what we do with the Endless, which isn't really touched up).

[Cynric]

I mean, you could try distance and just not touch on her for a while, then start fresh after the next expac gives us some distance.

But, barring that and dealing with her again soonish, we could also see another attempt at her having to deal with the realities of rule, this time handled differently. Vrtra could maybe become a mentor for the two Vows and provide his wise insight to her.

Also, the story ends with Solution Nine being unsure about boy-king Gulool and Wuk has stepped forward as his regent, so they seem like they're already going to touch on that plot. Solution Nine is going to be a thorny situation due to, presumably, them having to come to terms with no longer harvesting souls. No where for the memory part to go now, so the whole process is in question. Plus, you know, ethics. I'd like to see Koana and her disagree on it, with Koana on the "Nope, this is wrong and impractical" side and Wuk taking the tact that she took in the last two zones and just be wishy-washy on the point, cus she values peace above all else and also she doesn't necessarily like to think too deeply. And the story should ultimately have Koana ultimately be right and Wuk gaining more reason.

Also, I'd like to explore Koana's backstory and have her be a supportive sister to him. Having her be the support instead of the supported could help her character too.

Koana just generally being the one to teach Wuk things now, so the Vow of Resolve gets tempered by some Reason. Koana already learned the lessons of Resolve in 7.0 itself and has a personality he's working on and growing in to b/c of it.

... I have ideas. >_> lol

Personally I would rather they just sideline wuk lamat with paperwork for the rest of the next 10 years. Give the kid a different mentor from that shard and let them replace whatever she was supposed to do there.

Let's just use Nostalgia or Shale or honestly literally anyone, I've seen more Wuk lamat in this one expansion than I have seen most characters in two expansions. No more please, I've never skipped cutscenes in the entire 11+ years I've played, I don't want to have to start now.

Like please just no more Wuk lamat online, I'm already wanting my money back.