The Negative Impact of Poor Character Writing on the Quality of Dawntrail's MSQ

[Lady_Silvermoon]

She is indeed a textbook example of a Black Hole Sue.

You know, I've been arguing the character isn't a Mary Sue because the game stops every 2.5 seconds to TELL us she sucks at everything, but if you look at her actions, she literally succeeds at everything she attempts when there is no logical reason why. Like girl, you just got kidnapped by henchmen, how come you can beat Bakool Ja now?

[ForteNightshade]

She is indeed a textbook example of a Black Hole Sue.

I actually hadn't heard of this variation but boy does it fit her to an absolute tee

You know, I've been arguing the character isn't a Mary Sue because the game stops every 2.5 seconds to TELL us she sucks at everything, but if you look at her actions, she literally succeeds at everything she attempts when there is no logical reason why. Like girl, you just got kidnapped by henchmen, how come you can beat Bakool Ja now?

That scene really irked me for not only how contrived the whole damn setup is with her father but how our character just awkwardly hangs in the background. They're very clearly attempting to portray us as the mentor allowing their pupil to prove themselves except... we don't actually do any mentoring. Which still baffles me why they didn't include even some throwaway scenes of precisely that. It genuinely feels like the writer was so in love with Wuk Lamat they didn't dare want to take the limelight away from her.

[Aulainn]

That scene really irked me for not only how contrived the whole damn setup is with her father but how our character just awkwardly hangs in the background. They're very clearly attempting to portray us as the mentor allowing their pupil to prove themselves except... we don't actually do any mentoring. Which still baffles me why they didn't include even some throwaway scenes of precisely that. It genuinely feels like the writer was so in love with Wuk Lamat they didn't dare want to take the limelight away from her.

I was aggressively gesturing my hands towards my TV when she was kidnapped immediately after the cutscene where we're asked to take care of her. Why are we so pathetically incompetent?

[Aurumis]

I was aggressively gesturing my hands towards my TV when she was kidnapped immediately after the cutscene where we're asked to take care of her. Why are we so pathetically incompetent?

And when we are just watching as the son kills his father?? Like...why nobody does nothing and let's him go???

[ThorneDynasty]

I actually hadn't heard of this variation but boy does it fit her to an absolute tee



That scene really irked me for not only how contrived the whole damn setup is with her father but how our character just awkwardly hangs in the background. They're very clearly attempting to portray us as the mentor allowing their pupil to prove themselves except... we don't actually do any mentoring. Which still baffles me why they didn't include even some throwaway scenes of precisely that. It genuinely feels like the writer was so in love with Wuk Lamat they didn't dare want to take the limelight away from her.

And before anyone says "you can't do this with a silent protagonist", I can still remember my bug son from the Heavensward Vath quests and how that was one of the first times along with the DRK storyline that the game really informed me of WoL's character.

[ForteNightshade]

I still struggle to understand why Zoraal Ja was even involved with Solution 9 as an antagonist at all. Yeah, yeah, because he wanted power and Solution 9 had power. I get that's what the story tells me and wants me to just go along with. But structurally its just nonsensical and totally ineffective. Why did Sphene just give him total authority over everything? Why not just take the key from him if thats what she needed? Why did Zoraal Ja even feel this was necessary to prove his point? Did he do all of this *just* to prove a point? Why am I watching this fisher price Arbiter transforming into a completely different character all of a sudden with an even more utterly incomprehensible motivation than he had before he went into the portal? What on earth is happening?

Zoraal Ja on the whole feels like he was shoehorned into the villain role both to give Wuk Lamat a legitimate reason to still be involved in the story and to serve as placeholder because, well, once Bakool Ja Ja had his flip, the story had a pretty gaping hole in terms of conflict. Granted, they could have simply had Sphene attack without Zoraal Ja ever being involved but that makes it much harder to portray her as essentially a foil to our "main character", Wuk Lamat.

What's a shame is there was real potential for Zoraal as more an anti-villain. The idea of a warmongering veteran being resentful his peace don't see and appreciate (from his perspective) the tragedy of war could make for a compelling narrative. Especially if he was the one who brought side peace. Unfortunately, they instead turn him into a psychopath whose even makes no logical sense. He wants to conquer the world to show why... conquest is bad? It's once again clear the writer didn't care to dedicate any real time to developing any sort of nuisance to his philosophy. So he just became generic big bad.

I was aggressively gesturing my hands towards my TV when she was kidnapped immediately after the cutscene where we're asked to take care of her. Why are we so pathetically incompetent?

Because we have to be. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the Wuk Lamat show featuring her Understudy of Light.

And before anyone says "you can't do this with a silent protagonist", I can still remember my bug son from the Heavensward Vath quests and how that was one of the first times along with the DRK storyline that the game really informed me of WoL's character.

Hilariously, the exact scene we should have gotten went to Thancred for some inexplicable reason. It's mystifying why we couldn't have a campfire scene with some dialogue options. Heck, give us a silly Rocky montage showing Wuk struggle or some down to earth silliness that might genuinely endear us to her quirks and shortcomings all while not relegating us to NPC background character. There are ways around a silent protagonist, and both our example show that. They just didn't bother portraying any of them.

[TaleraRistain]

I actually hadn't heard of this variation but boy does it fit her to an absolute tee



That scene really irked me for not only how contrived the whole damn setup is with her father but how our character just awkwardly hangs in the background. They're very clearly attempting to portray us as the mentor allowing their pupil to prove themselves except... we don't actually do any mentoring. Which still baffles me why they didn't include even some throwaway scenes of precisely that. It genuinely feels like the writer was so in love with Wuk Lamat they didn't dare want to take the limelight away from her.

I've honestly wondered if she is either a higher up's favorite, something decided upon by committee, or a writer self-insert.

I actually liked her in the first half. I liked being the mentor (for all the flaws that had) in the first half. I did not like her overshadowing Scions and others like Erenville in the second half when that should have been our time with them so their stories could be told properly. So they shoved her into things so much that I don't ever want to even hear her name again in the story.