The Negative Impact of Poor Character Writing on the Quality of Dawntrail's MSQ

[HighlanderClone]

This deserves a bump. I read it on xivd and I had a few thoughts but don't really have the time to write it down right now...

Character is, I believe, the single most important component of storytelling.

To go back to what I said at the start, I think what makes FFXIV special is in how it treats its characters, but that's not entirely true. What makes FFXIV special is how Natsuko Ishikawa treats its characters.

I agree with most of your points but the biggest thing I don't agree with is that character writing is the biggest problem this expansion. Wuk Lamat is annoying but an equivalently serious problem is the complete absence of depth with the story's themes...

I will expand on it later. I know that a lot of people enjoyed ShB, EW because the characters were written decently in those two xpacs. But IMO the themes also got shallower and shallower and deep philosophical issues are just raised without much exploration. Ishikawa to me is a worse writer than what came before because she doesn't seem to care much for sociological storytelling. An entire avenue for depth has been removed with her writing. One of the biggest reasons why I thought Les Miserables or War and Peace are great works is because they tell the story of a society through its characters. ShB and EW don't have much of that and therefore despite the stakes actually feels less epic than SB IMHO.

Subjectively IMO her writing is also less mature. Even in ShB and EW it feels like problems are solved too easily, which robs us of the opportunity to sit with and ponder certain facets of the human condition. The worlds become far less grounded starting in ShB and entire societies start to feel like props that exist just so Ishikawa can moralize about hope.

I am not saying sociogical storytelling is superior, just that the importance of character writing depends on your own preferences. A deep story typically needs to be deep across several dimensions, like character, society, theming. I genuinely think focusing on just the character writing means that the story in FF14 will never be profound and match the heights of great literature. Although, perhaps I should not be expecting a video game to deliver writing as profound as the classics in the first place...

Also with DT we have nothing. So I suppose improvement in any direction would be positive.

[Karkarov]

i laughed my ass off when we are in wild west map, there is bandit den and i was given 2 option to choice, once is just storm the den and massacre everyone, other is find a way around, then game just dimissed my choice said we would have trouble with law, then sent me go and collect bird poops, for real, we are in lawless wild west ffs, which kind of law want to deal with a walking nuke

Yeah that moment was beyond moronic. When I went and started taking out Kobolds in La Noscea the law didn't seem to care. When I was taking out heretics as I saw fit in Ishgard operating mostly under my own whims the law seemed totally cool with it. But in this dirt bowl where "the law" has already been subverted and "dueling" is apparently not only ok but it can decide legal matters? Nope, you can't take those bandits out, the law wont take kindly to that.

[ShariusTC]

a whole xpac there is only 1 cs is my favor is when we are in 5th map, and lizzard man order to his army attack city, then dragon come to rescue, there is no wut lamat there to steal the show, and for brief moment seem like scion back to themselve, feel like they got suppressed a whole xpac by director to turn wut lamat be a main spotlight of game, then in cutscene doesn't has her present, they back to normal

[Gortys]

Yeah that moment was beyond moronic. When I went and started taking out Kobolds in La Noscea the law didn't seem to care. When I was taking out heretics as I saw fit in Ishgard operating mostly under my own whims the law seemed totally cool with it. But in this dirt bowl where "the law" has already been subverted and "dueling" is apparently not only ok but it can decide legal matters? Nope, you can't take those bandits out, the law wont take kindly to that.

Being hit with rubber bullets will totally make someone question their moral choices.

a whole xpac there is only 1 cs is my favor is when we are in 5th map, and lizzard man order to his army attack city, then dragon come to rescue, there is no wut lamat there to steal the show, and for brief moment seem like scion back to themselve, feel like they got suppressed a whole xpac by director to turn wut lamat be a main spotlight of game, then in cutscene doesn't has her present, they back to normal

WL spent the entire expansion amazed at everything and all of the different cultures in her own country. But dragons show up to rescue them and she doesn't seem amazed at all and shows no interest in them - like it's just typical or something.

[Eyrilona]

Yeah that moment was beyond moronic. When I went and started taking out Kobolds in La Noscea the law didn't seem to care. When I was taking out heretics as I saw fit in Ishgard operating mostly under my own whims the law seemed totally cool with it. But in this dirt bowl where "the law" has already been subverted and "dueling" is apparently not only ok but it can decide legal matters? Nope, you can't take those bandits out, the law wont take kindly to that.

That feels even worse when you play a Dark Knight -- because this is nothing compared to what you do in Ishgard for the Dark Knight job quests. The whole thematic point of Dark Knights is that they act outside the law to do what the law won't.

[Local_Custard]

G'raha had 2 strong moments in the entire expansion. The one you described and the small moment where he was silly with the ice cream. This is why I love him as a character. For me, he is a rare kind of man. He has empathy, experience, is kind, and intellegent. He might not be street smart but nor am I. I particularly love him when he is in company of characters who also express themself. He can't be the only good character in the game. It felt like a breath of fresh air from an open window when the room is full of staleness. The window has closed once more.

What's particularly sad is how few words Urinanger has spoken this expansion. This ironically speaks volume. Urinanger tends to speak a lot when he speaks. He inquires, he contemplates, and he likely will go independantly if the situation asks for it. He at one point literally pretended to be an enemy because he knew it was needed. When he talks he isn't usually obvious with what he means either. This tells me the writers likely did not know what to do with him (along with many of the characters). Urinager had many moments to prod at the world and come up with unexpected solutions. He isn't afraid of dealing with moral dilemmas either- he will try his best at least. Several times I saw him on screen and thought "he must have something cooking" but he did not. He only cooked once and it was literal.

What will I tell my friends when introducing them to why I love ffxiv in context of the new expansion? More than likely that dawntrail is not why I love the game.

[PaleYonder]

Several times I saw him on screen and thought "he must have something cooking" but he did not. He only cooked once and it was literal.

Beautifully put, and agreed. He's one of the thinkers, let him think.

What will I tell my friends when introducing them to why I love ffxiv in context of the new expansion? More than likely that dawntrail is not why I love the game.

That's a real issue now, especially with those who care about story and immersion like me, and especially with this now being the most recent expansion. Can't say "I know pre-Titan/collecting soul sand is painful, but it gets cool again" or "Stormblood isn't the best, but what comes after is" or "If this part is really too bad and you're about to drop it, come, we'll get you a skip to the next part, there's the good stuff". This is as far as it gets now, there are no skips and no future and we don't know what the next direction will be.
I've already had to switch the line to a friend to the very un-pitch-like "I can't recommend it now in good conscience, but should you play it..."
And I don't even know where I stand myself yet on whether I'll be part of this future. I'm still processing.

[localareanetwork]

Hi, excellent write up to start, I was pointed to you by a mutual friend of ours. I wanted to share something that personally bugged me. It has nothing to do with Wuk Lamat.

Towards the latter half of the Solution 9 arc, Erenville begins to realize that his mom is dead, and you can very clearly notice his behavior changing from that point up until the very last part of the last bit of Living Memory. If you talk to him between quests, he literally just sits there pacing back and fourth, only saying "..." because he knows he's going to have to come to terms with it. And that's where my problem is. Why did no one comfort him? He got like one offhand comment thrown his way, but where's the actual consolation? I lost a parent recently, so this part probably personally bugs me more than it should, but I felt so bad that I took a gpose of my character hugging him in some strange attempt to convince myself the WOL actually notices that their friend is grieving about their dead parent and that they actually care about him. It just felt so wrong and bizarre at the same time, and was easily the most infuriating thing about the entire expansion to me that made me feel downright awful, not just "this is boring".

[IvoryHawk]

One of the biggest let downs, because you could see it coming a mile away with small comments from Bakool JA JA like him saying he didn't have a plan when he became leader, it was to prove that he was strong, above all, was they didn't flesh out a redeeming story for him, he runs off crying like a baby then all of a sudden learns humility and empathy for "one heads" and other races, it went from 0-100, he could have been a really cool redeemed character but it was pushed out lightning fast where i'm made to just forgive just because his mamool ja city pushed the weight of right of succession onto him, that we find out pretty fast and resolve even faster.

This one storyline could have at least been paced better but they were all just too fast, which is crazy because the story felt way too long, lots of issues with the story team I guess, but pacing was terrible this expansion.

[PaleYonder]

Hi, excellent write up to start, I was pointed to you by a mutual friend of ours. I wanted to share something that personally bugged me. It has nothing to do with Wuk Lamat.

Towards the latter half of the Solution 9 arc, Erenville begins to realize that his mom is dead, and you can very clearly notice his behavior changing from that point up until the very last part of the last bit of Living Memory. If you talk to him between quests, he literally just sits there pacing back and fourth, only saying "..." because he knows he's going to have to come to terms with it. And that's where my problem is. Why did no one comfort him? He got like one offhand comment thrown his way, but where's the actual consolation? I lost a parent recently, so this part probably personally bugs me more than it should, but I felt so bad that I took a gpose of my character hugging him in some strange attempt to convince myself the WOL actually notices that their friend is grieving about their dead parent and that they actually care about him. It just felt so wrong and bizarre at the same time, and was easily the most infuriating thing about the entire expansion to me that made me feel downright awful, not just "this is boring".

Yeah same, having also lost a parent, I empathised, and also took it as a given that my WOL would be there for serious conversations to the side and actual attempts at solace instead of this tour - and wouldn't even have allowed this to go on in the first place.
(Well, no, in the very first place, this is all a fever dream and doesn't happen, but if it did.)

It's again that thing the OP very correctly points out: Empathy in the writing and the lack of it.