Do healers actually want a more complex damage rotation?

[Ayalu]

Isn't scholar the most successful one?
Atleast i keep reading it here in the Forum

[Azurarok]

It's ironic that pvp has healers with dps kits and they also have more GCD healing to do, and everyone in that mode has a powerful self heal. I do realize a lot of it only works because it's pvp though.

Tanks can barely tank the same since they're squishier and the best they can do for enmity management is being a nuisance that's harder to ignore, damage comes at any moment in any amount, dpsing helps the objective but isn't the ultimate goal, and our skill sets are far more limited.

This in contrast to pve where tanks are extremely tough and enmity management is largely just having a stance on or not, damage is scripted and spaced out in very specific intervals, burning down the enemy's HP is always the objective, and we have a surplus of healing oGCDs.

[Tunda]

It's ironic that pvp has healers with dps kits and they also have more GCD healing to do, and everyone in that mode has a powerful self heal. I do realize a lot of it only works because it's pvp though.

Tanks can barely tank the same since they're squishier and the best they can do for enmity management is being a nuisance that's harder to ignore, damage comes at any moment in any amount, dpsing helps the objective but isn't the ultimate goal, and our skill sets are far more limited.

This in contrast to pve where tanks are extremely tough and enmity management is largely just having a stance on or not, damage is scripted and spaced out in very specific intervals, burning down the enemy's HP is always the objective, and we have a surplus of healing oGCDs.

The issue is:

Tanks are too much tanky(except dark knight)
Healers have too much heal(except sage)

Reduce all tank tankiness like dark knight and reduce all healers heal like Sage

Add fun kit and call it.a day

[Ramiee]

It does not need to be paticularly complex just something that takes brain power.
Like I said you could remove the dot from sage give it a 1-2 combo that gives you a charge of addersting then have toxicons damage depend on how many adderstings are up and have it consume them all, this along with the weaving of ogcds would make its damage kit good enough. Scholar gaining its dots back and Astro's damage relating more to time magic or the card buffs would help. Really what people want myself as well is interesting damage kits and interesting healing kits they don't need to be complex just engaging. Bard is a job where you spend most of your time pressing 1 GCD as well but despite being very simple it has a lot of interplay that makes the one button press more tolerable.

[GrimGale]

The focus MUST be on healing. Not damage rotations. The minute you have a "damage rotation" it's no longer a healer, and someone tasked with healing will neglect the healing job because "but muh DPS!"

That already happens with what we have already. Again, healers not healing isn't a class design problem its a player problem. In the same way you can't force DPS players to not be Ice mages, you can't force healers to "heal" if they just won't press the appropriate buttons, no matter how abundant they are.

[flowerkatie]

That already happens with what we have already. Again, healers not healing isn't a class design problem its a player problem. In the same way you can't force DPS players to not be Ice mages, you can't force healers to "heal" if they just won't press the appropriate buttons, no matter how abundant they are.

I mean this response to KisaiTenshi just seems like nonesense, you can't force a DPS to do damage but they still do it because its literally required and they're going to be kicked from content if they afk. Healers don't heal because healing isn't required half the time, that isn't a player issue.

Make content harder and have people dying without heals and you are damn right people will press heal buttons, because its actually required and needed. Unless you have the ridiculous opinion that people playing healers are going to refuse to heal.

[flowerkatie]

To respond to this:

I don’t know how long you’ve been playing this game, nor do I know how long you’ve frequented discussion zones like this forum or maybe some of the FFXIV-related subreddits. So I don’t know if you might be aware of these discussions or not—but healers used to ask for this all the time. We begged and pleaded for more incoming damage to heal. For more reasons to actually BE a healer. The developers refused, and simply told us that, if we wanted to heal more, then go do Ultimate. They were not increasing the amount of incoming damage to allow healers to actually perform their role in content, and if we wanted to “be a healer”, go do Ultimate. This was early Endwalker when this was said. Healers on the forums started asking for more interesting DPS options a bit prior to that—but mostly because we had been asking for more ways to actually be a healer and were simply ignored.

What you're essentially saying is "We agree with you but developers said impossible so we want this band-aid fix instead", which is an argument that has been made twice already so I'm already fully aware of it. If the nonsensical argument of "play this specific content" is enough for you to concede and begin advocating for a non-ideal fix to the issue then your entire point is moot. Because, they're obviously not going to make DPS more complex and give another silly argument all the same to our suggestions of doing DPS.

So if both suggestions are going to be ignored then you rather stop discussion on it completely or advocate for the fix you want, which is what I'm doing. Verses advocating for a arguably worse solution that is also never going to happen. Cause, by the look of it - you're still being ignored.

[Azurarok]

Oh yeah, so for those who don't want dps complexity, what are yall's takes on the Stormblood kits, whether you've actually got to experience them or not? (I haven't)

I've heard multiple times in this forum that it was the best middle ground between healing and dpsing, and I've kinda assumed most people who want dps complexity are looking for something at a similar level as it.

[Ramiee]

Oh yeah, so for those who don't want dps complexity, what are yall's takes on the Stormblood kits, whether you've actually got to experience them or not? (I haven't)

I've heard multiple times in this forum that it was the best middle ground between healing and dpsing, and I've kinda assumed most people who want dps complexity are looking for something at a similar level as it.

Better than what we have now at least.

Scholar from my memory was pretty bad in dungeons damage wise (though mitigation was great.) Also due to old jank the dots could be a bit messy.
For the other two I didn't play them much but I think Astro hasn't changed that much, they just had a second dot.
White mage I think had a couple of strong attacks on CD you would use which may or may not of been oGCD. I'm not sure if this went away in stormblood but as a DPS you would keep your lower level DPS spells, you'd have stone 1 and stone 2 for example and the weaker dots. They had niche uses.

Really I think what most people feel mixed on is cleric stance. It's really the healers equivalent of Dark Arts, people either loved it or hated it.

[Keldion]

The focus MUST be on healing. Not damage rotations.

This already is the case from a class design perspective. Healer damage skills don't need the depth of DPS jobs, but every healer could use 1 more damage-related button at most without diluting their primary role.

What you're approaching is encounter design and player skill. Healer is objectively the worst off in the current state of the game, because they trade a metric that is always needed (damage) for one that is situational (healing), especially if more damage is weighted into avoidable telegraphs. Bad players will keep you busy, and good players ironically leave you with nothing to do.

I don't believe Square currently tunes their encounters around healer DPS contributions, and they should only ever be considered a bonus.