Did tanks really need more healing

[Rithy255]

Healer don't really need to do more dps and it isn't their most biggest problem. Unlike some tank. Healer didn't ask to be turned to a green dps. They just want the HEALING to be more interesting and that tank self heal is in the way.

And I want some healing/utility on tanks, keeps them interesting, Tanks are also supports not just blue DPS.

healers can have healing that is meaningful and tanks can have sustain that is meaningful, The issue isn't just sustain, its the level of Mitigation combined with sustain, coupled with the lack of healing, it feels like you really want to pin this as a one note issue when it's a lot more then just "oh tank self heal i have no job, so lets remove self heal from tank"

I don't know how much more i can go over the same point that sustain is fine when actually balanced and accounted for in that content.

[The_User]

Is it the support that healers asked for? According to their reply in the first page I highly doubt it.

[Tunda]

Setting aside the terrible DPS kits for all the tanks, why have the 2 minutes defense buffs all get an extra upgrade outside of defense buff?
Did warrior really need another way to regen with its 30 cd benediction in dungeons wouldn't upgrading the counter attack damage make far more sense. I think only Dark Knight needed a self sustain upgrade if they felt like it.
This along with some DPS getting 500 Potency AOE heals seems like its erasing healers role and removing any form of challenge from Tanking.
Unless Dawntrail completely changes how much damage tanks and the party recieves and make it 2000s MMO level of damage these upgrade just seem to make all the support roles seem even more mindless.

Why not? healers are just taking a role of potion or bloodwhetting. they have to redesign healers

[Rithy255]

Is it the support that healers asked for? According to their reply in the first page I highly doubt it.

I meant tanks are by definition a support role, they generally focus on taking hits through mitigating, self healing ect. But it's also common that tanks will also provide party support aswell which can include target healing, it makes sense for a Paladin to have some form of target healing. That and "tanking" is just a stance you press once and forget about so I would prefer tanks to keep their support abilities.

[Ramiee]

Why not? healers are just taking a role of potion or bloodwhetting. they have to redesign healers

The key word is heal.

Healers should be the best at doing that, DPS and Tanks with access to heals should NOT be able to full heal. Even with clemency on PLD I think its potency is too high I think it should only be 1000 on DPS/HEALER and not on Tanks.
I don't mind tanks having access to regens and barriers, pure heals are something im against but thats personal opinion. Being able to sustain themselves longer than any other role can in its job at tanking but I think the face they can constatly full heal looking at PLD and WAR paticularly. Shake it off shouldn't have a regen, Divine Veil shouldn't pure heal, PoA having a regen after you're hit would be ok in my opinion though. Healers don't need to be redesigned they should just be given their job back, nerf the healing of DPS and Tanks to heal at most 50% of their HP and their AoE heals ideally being mostly in regens instead of straight up heals and the problem will be solved. Also readding powerful boss dots and debuffs on that can only be esuna'd would also help mitigate the destruction of healer's role.

I also think it destroys tanks identities, since every single tank becomes a regen tank you can't have anything unique like HW/SB DRK. Everything has to become versions of WAR, self sustain can be done in so many different ways instead of healing. Lifestealing WAR is the most unique identity we have right now, GNB could constantly place barriers for example to protect itself. Do we really consider healing to be the only way to self-sustain as a tank in mmos?

[Rithy255]

The key word is heal.

Healers should be the best at doing that, DPS and Tanks with access to heals should NOT be able to full heal. Even with clemency on PLD I think its potency is too high I think it should only be 1000 on DPS/HEALER and not on Tanks.
I don't mind tanks having access to regens and barriers, pure heals are something im against but thats personal opinion. Being able to sustain themselves longer than any other role can in its job at tanking but I think the face they can constatly full heal looking at PLD and WAR paticularly. Shake it off shouldn't have a regen, Divine Veil shouldn't pure heal, PoA having a regen after you're hit would be ok in my opinion though. Healers don't need to be redesigned they should just be given their job back, nerf the healing of DPS and Tanks to heal at most 50% of their HP and their AoE heals ideally being mostly in regens instead of straight up heals and the problem will be solved. Also readding powerful boss dots and debuffs on that can only be esuna'd would also help mitigate the destruction of healer's role.

I also think it destroys tanks identities, since every single tank becomes a regen tank you can't have anything unique like HW/SB DRK. Everything has to become versions of WAR, self sustain can be done in so many different ways instead of healing. Lifestealing WAR is the most unique identity we have right now, GNB could constantly place barriers for example to protect itself. Do we really consider healing to be the only way to self-sustain as a tank in mmos?

Clemencies potency is 1000 but it's weaker then Cure 2 due to Tanks and most dps not having the maim and mend passive. Clemency of all skills is like the most balanced way of sustain you lose damage for it, it's high MP It's really fine as it is.

DV healing Isn't really a massive issue, I personally don't really think POA needs changing either, I think veil fits a "paladin", while Shake feels really odd on a "warrior" and being outright stronger then paladin's, GNB/DRK should have theirs work on physical too.

The tanks having healing is a small part of the issue, Paladins self sustain wouldn't nearly be as effective as warrior's in AOE if tanks didn't already have absurd mitigation values, Granted I think we can remove Paladins self healing from magic attacks and ever so slightly buff holy sheltrons regen by making it last 18s or something.

Theirs a case by case situation where somethings like "job identity" has to be considered, a flat "lets remove all healing from jobs" is silly, Warrior is a example of where healing other players doesn't even really fit the job in the first place, it should keep its self sustain (although i think it needs to be nerfed a bit at this point), But a job like Paladin or dancer having a small AOE healing effect isn't going to be the end of the world. Self sustain doesn't need to be the main way jobs function, I don't even think most tanks Need target/group healing but it's nice when it suits the job aslong as it doesn't go too out of hand.

[Ayche]

I know this is a peak high of the movement's fervor, but you are not going to make the game better by removing these abilities to help each other. I remember even seeing people advocating taking away the party mits from tanks.
I think it is good that tanks have some measure of agency in their own survival. I think it is good that tanks can help in the group healing if there are moments that feel especially intense.

[The_User]

Is it? One day some tank are gonna ask for more heal, stronger heal and the other are gonna follow. This point we have reach is foreshadow since shadowbringer. Even tho they change all heal to be like clemency one day someone will cry for it to change and little by little history will repeat.

[Connor]

Personally I’d say it’s the encounter design that’s the problem and not the fact tanks have so much mitigation.

I mean, in an action-based game there’s only so many ways you can represent ‘defending your allies from harm’. The devs have tried to do this by giving tanks tons of mitigation and support healing abilities, which makes sense from a design perspective since it gives them a variety of ways to ‘defend their teammates’.

It’s when that design is put into practice that it falls apart sadly (which frankly is a common theme in ffxiv; decent design ideas that fall apart in practice). Damage output from most content is way too low to justify having so much of these abilities, and that’s exacerbated by how massively powerful every healer is now.

I feel like nothing will ever solve the issue with tanks (or healers) unless encounter design changes, but that also has its own controversies. Like how making damage proportionate to the amount of healing/mitigation skills we currently have would make general content simply unplayable for the general player because of the difficulty level. Maybe.

[Mikey_R]

It isn't just encounter design, it is also a tank's kit. Currently, tank's defensive kits are quite uniform, it is their self sustain that is miles different. Going to the extremes, Dark Knight and Warrior, they have such different self healing profiles (with DRK being almost non existent) that it creates an issue. If the healing profiles were to be made more uniform, you could then change the incoming damage to reflect this change.