#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[SamLeens]

Would it really be that bad to let these hypothetical casuals fail sometimes? Let them die once or twice. Maybe have a built-in way to nudge them in the right direction. Force them to learn at least the complete basics. If they wanna play XIV like it's a singleplayer story game, that's fine. But most singleplayer RPGs are way more challenging than this, even on story mode.

well, i met the tank without all the def cds in a lvl 90 dungeon. the tank who told me "i dont need def cds. my ilvl is high enough!" pulled wall to wall in the last story dungeon 6.0 min ilvl and the healer was my co heal in zodiark normal. they die sooner or later because the insta heals are gone and they dont survive my cast time. sometimes they even kick me bc they think i let them die on purpose.
the thing is, and im not a fan of it, the game tells them that its okay to not care about your class. i get it. there should be a place for ppl who run a few dungeons and then log out again and i always try to help. even if my english is really bad and i only know tanks and healer but casuals are a completely different beast and i have the feeling that the ff14 team is not willig to give up on this not-challenging gameplay.

[PercibelTheren]

well, i met the tank without all the def cds in a lvl 90 dungeon. the tank who told me "i dont need def cds. my ilvl is high enough!" pulled wall to wall in the last story dungeon 6.0 min ilvl and the healer was my co heal in zodiark normal. they die sooner or later because the insta heals are gone and they dont survive my cast time. sometimes they even kick me bc they think i let them die on purpose.
the thing is, and im not a fan of it, the game tells them that its okay to not care about your class. i get it. there should be a place for ppl who run a few dungeons and then log out again and i always try to help. even if my english is really bad and i only know tanks and healer but casuals are a completely different beast and i have the feeling that the ff14 team is not willig to give up on this not-challenging gameplay.

Unfortunately, those tanks exist. I had a GNB like this in Bardam's Mettle who pulled everything he could and then got mad at me in chat because he had to pop Nebula. Mind you, he was in MSQ gear and not really pressing any mit buttons. Fortunately, those tanks are a small minority. Unless you're aggressive about it, many will even listen if you say "hey can you use Rampart here, you're taking a lot of unneccessary damage like this".

I do feel like WAR's insane healing in particular fosters an environment of tanks who don't even care to learn their job, though. It's anecdotal, obviously, but 80% of the bad tanks I get in any type of content are playing WAR.

[Loggos]

Would it really be that bad to let these hypothetical casuals fail sometimes? Let them die once or twice. Maybe have a built-in way to nudge them in the right direction. Force them to learn at least the complete basics. If they wanna play XIV like it's a singleplayer story game, that's fine. But most singleplayer RPGs are way more challenging than this, even on story mode.

Yeah, (some) failure should be an integral part of a challenge-based gaming experience, even on a casual level, or at least not be seen as this terrible thing that needs to be avoided at all costs.

And I don't think anybody can deny that FF14 at its core is a challenge-based game.

I don't think we need to have Soulsborne levels of failure to overcome but people should also not be afraid of casual content having a level of difficulty that could cause one or two wipes on a regular basis.

If a certain failure rate is expected then this would recontextualise "people struggling".
In this context their messing up could be perceived with a different mindset because it would be a much more normal/expected event.

I think the fact that struggling in regular content seems unusual or extraordinary is what creates a problem. Because if the mindset is "this shouldn't happen at all" vs. "failing once or twice is normal for this type of content" then of course struggling "needs" to be fixed and prevented as much as possible from that perspective.

This angle can lead to players developing a lower and lower frustration tolerance in normal content, but in my opinion the content should encourage players to build up a reasonable degree of frustration tolerance instead.

Neither slaving away nor breezing through everything all the time seem optimal to me in this kind of video game genre.

[OliviaLugria]

Once again, I'm not denying healers can be boring and have little to do in solo/normal content. I am arguing against the assertion that they are fundamentally boring and pointless, because that's just not true in harder content.

The real trouble is that SE did try to address this exact feedback about healing being boring with Abyssos, and it went terribly for them- they increased raidwide damage significantly, and in response, healers quit en masse. They have little reason to try again only to face that backlash again. That said, I would posit that mit skills being upgraded pretty much across the board (for healers, tanks, and DPS all) might suggest they may be planning to increase raidwide damage again for Dawntrail, and all this doomposting may be premature. One can only hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

"Please improve solo/casual content"
They address the issue in Abyssos? As I said in a previous post it's not a healer mechanic alone. The mitigation healer is only going to account for half of the total amount of mits being applied to any one mechanic.

And premature? I've been waiting 2 soon to be 3 expansions to get back the things they took from scholar back in stormblood. You say these mit skill upgrades mean increasing raidwide damage? I heard that last expansion and the one before that. I have no reason to think it'll change this time. We currently have a bloated healing kit. If they "increase the damage of raid wides" but also increase the defensive utility we end up in the same place, a bloated healer kit.

[Mortex]

Just stop complaining and dps to make dungeons go faster. Idk people expect healers to actually have to heal in dungeons if I can get away with not casting any lilies in a dungeon or 24 man I am happy. If you want more engaging healing go do savage or ults cause you ain't getting it in dungeons.

Lilys after you get blood Lily’s is a dmg gain in the 76 to 80 ranges and dmg neutral/gain with buffs from 82-90. Like people having no clue about this and saying they are happy not casting them in these lvl ranges are muppets plain and simple. And like people said that did Ulfs and savage healing there isn’t better because you can Spreadsheet the entire role as you can with mits.

[xbahax92]

Unfortunately, those tanks exist. I had a GNB like this in Bardam's Mettle who pulled everything he could and then got mad at me in chat because he had to pop Nebula. Mind you, he was in MSQ gear and not really pressing any mit buttons. Fortunately, those tanks are a small minority. Unless you're aggressive about it, many will even listen if you say "hey can you use Rampart here, you're taking a lot of unneccessary damage like this".

I do feel like WAR's insane healing in particular fosters an environment of tanks who don't even care to learn their job, though. It's anecdotal, obviously, but 80% of the bad tanks I get in any type of content are playing WAR.

It's unfortunate these occasions happen more frequently. We're living in a timeline where jump potions exist. I wouldnt bet on it, but I'm pretty sure some of these moments occur, cause new players want to jump immediatly into their adventure without even reading their toolkits.

[ForsakenRoe]

now you think its smart to give a healer a rota. why should a class that works on demand have a fixed rota when the dmg intake is not a fixed rota? And i mean the other 3 or 7 ppl in your party that spontaneously might die or need healing. why do i need the "oh no. dont get hurt. dont die! im in my 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 rotation! i dont have time for that! Other healer, do something!" and the other healer will tell you that they dont wanna interrupt their rotation either.

Another day, another player who thinks that 'oh those healers are asking for more damage buttons in their rotation, clearly they must be referring to an non-malleable, zero-versatility 123 combo that breaks as soon as you try to heal!' Though, this is the first time I've seen it taken to the next extreme of 'a 123456 combo'. We've been over it many times, even in this very thread, that a 123 'combo' is a Physical Damage thing, and should remain on the Tanks/Melee/MCH. Rather, 'X Ready' procs, and separate CDs ala Sonic Break/Goring Blade, along with DOT durations to create a 'soft CD', is a much more sensible option.

Here's an example. WHM has it's DOT reduced to 12s duration (press every 5th GCD) and it gets a new button 'Banish' with a 15s CD (press every 6th GCD). Nothing else. If you are doing your rotation, and it's time to go Glare, Glare, Banish, Dia, Glare, but oh no you have to heal after the second Glare (where the Banish is), then it doesn't matter that you're about to do your rotation, it doesn't break anything. You'd just go 'Heal', Banish, Dia, Glare Glare. Or perhaps, Dia, then Banish, depending on potencies. But the point is, you'd be able to simply delay one or the other (or both) to prioritize healing, without having some sort of hard 123 combo that breaks if you even look at a different hotbar button.

If someone is going to go 'I don't want to interrupt my 'rotation'' as a healer, they're already going to do so now, with the current 'rotation'. If they're that parse-hungry that they're willing to ignore the primary responsibility of their role, giving them a more complex rotation isn't going to make them 'more parse-hungry'

As an aside, I've had multiple times where tanks in Abyssos said 'I'm not using Mitigation on this TB, it's during my 6min burst with potion. I'm going to just Invuln it'. And then left us healers to clean up a DOT that was ticking for like 35k+ damage per tick, because it snapshotted the 'absolutely zero mitigation used' on the TB. Despite this, saying 'screw my primary responsibility of mitigating damage, I'm going to push damage for my parse', Tanks don't seem to get punished by SE with 'well they're clearly trying to be too greedy and it's causing friction between players. Better delete Shadowbringer/PrimalRend/the other damage buttons'. No, in fact, they only ever seem to get even more.

[Mortex]

And now we circle back to "do harder content." If you're making it through ultimates by using Soil every 45 seconds and clicking Broil otherwise, I'd love to meet your cohealer.

His co healer plays sage and together they can over mit any heal check. “But they have to use adlo spread in down time or once or twice in the uptime reeee” .

[Mortex]

Abyssos problem was the raidwide bleeds were controlled by the initial hit damage

Why am I a “shield” healer when I get 3 mitigations (for the purpose of a bleedwide succor and seraph aren’t mitigations because they don’t change the bleeds damage) and the rest of the party collectively has another 15

I had no control in abyssos no matter how much I begged people to press their mitigation, they never did but they always blamed me when the raidwide shredded their health

If you want me to be the shield healer give me the mitigation not give it to the SAM who’d rather drift it then argue with me for 10 minutes over just pressing it when I tell them to press it because I gave them my mit plan

Abyssos was the messiest and most healer hostile way they could increase healing because it gave healers all the blame but none of the control

In a static the fight was a bit challenging healing wise but in pf it was just pure booty cheeks.

But that happens when you don’t give mits to the healer and rather to every one else.

But that really does drive in how as healer you have to cleanup other people’s messes.

[SamLeens]

Another day, another player who thinks that 'oh those healers are asking for more damage buttons in their rotation, clearly they must be referring to an non-malleable, zero-versatility 123 combo that breaks as soon as you try to heal!' Though, this is the first time I've seen it taken to the next extreme of 'a 123456 combo'. We've been over it many times, even in this very thread, that a 123 'combo' is a Physical Damage thing, and should remain on the Tanks/Melee/MCH. Rather, 'X Ready' procs, and separate CDs ala Sonic Break/Goring Blade, along with DOT durations to create a 'soft CD', is a much more sensible option.

Here's an example. WHM has it's DOT reduced to 12s duration (press every 5th GCD) and it gets a new button 'Banish' with a 15s CD (press every 6th GCD). Nothing else. If you are doing your rotation, and it's time to go Glare, Glare, Banish, Dia, Glare, but oh no you have to heal after the second Glare (where the Banish is), then it doesn't matter that you're about to do your rotation, it doesn't break anything. You'd just go 'Heal', Banish, Dia, Glare Glare. Or perhaps, Dia, then Banish, depending on potencies. But the point is, you'd be able to simply delay one or the other (or both) to prioritize healing, without having some sort of hard 123 combo that breaks if you even look at a different hotbar button.

If someone is going to go 'I don't want to interrupt my 'rotation'' as a healer, they're already going to do so now, with the current 'rotation'. If they're that parse-hungry that they're willing to ignore the primary responsibility of their role, giving them a more complex rotation isn't going to make them 'more parse-hungry'

As an aside, I've had multiple times where tanks in Abyssos said 'I'm not using Mitigation on this TB, it's during my 6min burst with potion. I'm going to just Invuln it'. And then left us healers to clean up a DOT that was ticking for like 35k+ damage per tick, because it snapshotted the 'absolutely zero mitigation used' on the TB. Despite this, saying 'screw my primary responsibility of mitigating damage, I'm going to push damage for my parse', Tanks don't seem to get punished by SE with 'well they're clearly trying to be too greedy and it's causing friction between players. Better delete Shadowbringer/PrimalRend/the other damage buttons'. No, in fact, they only ever seem to get even more.

The conversation was with someone who gave me the feeling that they just want more buttons to press and a rotation. so everything you say doesnt make sense to me and feels out of context.