A plea for RNG and proc based gameplay

[Mawlzy]

There goes Yoshida making up bullshit false dichotomies again. Planning around RNG correctly is a skill. RNG jobs are skill-based. They just ask for other skills besides 'do your 20-step rotation and don't drift your cooldowns'.

File this one in the Yoshida's Nonsense Bin with his 'pure/barrier healer' split and his 'main/off-tank' split.

Yup. I'd go as far as saying rotations that have to consider RNG requires more skill (or at least more observation) than static sequences. The latter is simply memorization, which to me isn't particularly interesting.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There goes Yoshida making up bullshit false dichotomies again. Planning around RNG correctly is a skill. RNG jobs are skill-based. They just ask for other skills besides 'do your 20-step rotation and don't drift your cooldowns'.

File this one in the Yoshida's Nonsense Bin with his 'pure/barrier healer' split and his 'main/off-tank' split.

I mean, getting boned by RNG isn't really a skill. It's just pure suffering.

[Sjol]

I find the secret to RNG mechanics to be just getting enough rolls at the table. Over time the rolls will even out. This is a lot trickier when you have such high potency variance because you're not going to make up a 3.2x multiplier on a 1000 potency attack. Which brings up the second design constraint: burst windows are antithetical to RNG based jobs -- they just ramp up the multiplier.

[Zolvolt]

Raid encounter design would have to change to make room for rng. right now rng just makes you worse than everyone else sometimes for no reason and it's outside of your control

[Reimmi]

yall act like you are not all just going to the balance for your full rotation break down and print out anyways..

The nice thing about procs is they make those full rotations not as important because then it becomes a priority system not just "do this list over and over til the boss is dead"

[Sated]

RNG is also my preferred style.

I enjoy proc priority; focusing more on reducing loss from an abundance of resources than from squeezing blood out of a stone using a restricted, set rotation. I also enjoy reacting and making decisions.
I don't enjoy long combos that take up an unreasonable number of keybinds for filler abilities with little/no difference between them, so in that regard I'm very excited to try some melee jobs other than Reaper in Dawntrail.

Honestly if DNC hadn't come out when I started playing FFXIV again I may not have stuck with the game so long after MSQ but it's genuinely fun to play because of the RNG (and mobility, but it's hardly the only one with that). None of the other jobs really clicked with me and it took a very long time before I warmed up to a couple more roles - time I probably wouldn't have stuck around for if I didn't have DNC to fall back on.

I wish they let a few more jobs really lean into RNG so we had more options, but barring that I hope they just never change DNC in any significant way.

[KageTokage]

I find the secret to RNG mechanics to be just getting enough rolls at the table. Over time the rolls will even out. This is a lot trickier when you have such high potency variance because you're not going to make up a 3.2x multiplier on a 1000 potency attack. Which brings up the second design constraint: burst windows are antithetical to RNG based jobs -- they just ramp up the multiplier.

This is another reason why I'm confused about DT's job design choices because they added a ton of 1k+ potency actions that do not auto-DH/crit so now everyone is subject to more RNG-based damage variance overall.

[mallleable]

Procs are cool, it's why I enjoy playing BRD, and RDM. The jobs have a good balance between RNG, and static moments, and they don't clash with each other. MNK is also fun with the chakras. It would be nice to see more light RNG in more jobs.

[KisaiTenshi]

After the release of job changes in the media tour, it becomes obvious to me that the devs just hate RNG and proc gameplay.

RNG is almost always "poor" gameplay. You're replacing skill with random chance. When it comes to optimal gameplay, a proc-based job will be passed over in favor of the non-proc-based play.

Where RNG can be "good" gameplay is when the proc itself bounces the variables. So you are never required to fire off the proc for optimal play, but if you press it correctly, your next chain adds more damage, or has less recast, or something like that, and it just stacks until you cast something the proc doesn't apply to, or get KO'd. Optimal gameplay is then simply "using" the proc rather than having hold off using the proc for the optimal usage time.

Like the problem with AST for example, is that the cards are random, thus you can't plan anything. So what you tend to run into are AST's who just either don't use the cards, or they use the cards on themselves because that extra time required to target another player reduces their DPS, or they miss a group heal or some excuse. Nevermind how useless it is to fish for the Cure1/Benefic1 proc. MP is not a problem anymore. Lucid Dreaming is available at level 14 (60s CD), the first dungeon is level 15. You used to not have a 'refresh' skill until level 36 (Shroud of Saints, 120s CD). So the need to fish for a "freecure" is non-existent.

When things are "random" in terms of their availability, then they are just not used, or sometimes just too much stress to use, what if I get "good proc" when I don't need it and it kills the CD when I need it? What if I get a proc that isn't useful here?

The actual design of the game has been stripping out a lot of things that make jobs and races different because otherwise people would build meta's of 'best in slot' gear + "best DPS", nothing else get's used. Remember that the original races had some very small (like 2 points) differences in stats. You used to be able to put bonus points into certain stats. You used to be able to meld elemental affinity to gear. All of that is "random" variables that a dungeon choreography can't deal with, and NPC players won't have. I would love for there to be reasons to swap, say a full "fire" affinity set with a full water affinity set to do more damage, or protect against certain bosses, but the actual dungeon design does not want you to do this. We've seen games do this, and players just wear the gear that makes them super strong just to go glass-cannon and one-shot the boss. Then they never use that gear again. Farm the dungeon till you get what you want, and then repeat for the next one.

That's why you can't really do RNG based combat in this game. It encourages players to play the optimal meta and ignore everything else.

[tearagion]

...what?

anyway agree, most fun recent mmo class I've played outside of FFXIV was Arcana in Lost Ark, Empress and Emperor. It'd be nice if something scratched the same itch. Current jobs that involve some decision making around what procs you get when (BLM and BRD from my experience) show tiny tiny amounts of how fun a whole RNG job could be.