Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[aiqa]

Please read carefully.



Healers are already barely healing, or doing the least amount of healing possible. You could remove all self-healing from ALL tanks, and this would not change. It's an encounter design problem, and not a WAR problem.

The solution is not to take self-healing from other roles, but to instead design encounters so that healers have to heal more.

It's really, really not that hard to understand.

Your claims about GCD and OGCD heals were general statements about healers in savage content, not about their interaction with tanks. About specifically healer interaction with WAR tanks you said "WAR could lose all of its self-healing and healers would still not be healing." If you meant "not be healing with GCD heals," you should have said so. But saying that sounds a lot less convincing, doesn't it?

Besides that, tank heals are regularly far to strong compared to heals from healers. Healers pay a heavy price to do strong heals, while tanks seemingly get them for free on top of all the usual tank advantages. Uniquely WAR gets low cooldown OGCD/inherent healing against groups of enemies that is far stronger than any healer can maintain with a similarly low cooldown, much less while also keeping up their damage output.

Trinity MMO's have avoided balancing between roles by giving roles unique capabilities, and making those roles required. Healer/dps can't survive holding agro. Tanks/dps can't do significant healing. Tanks/healers can't do enough damage to finish the fights fast enough (due to enrage or player preference).
FF made the mistake of removing the uniqueness of the healer role. Far to much of the healer role is shared with tanks (mostly WAR, and gee I wonder which players think that is fine). It is at a point where healers and tanks have so much overlap that healing balance is starting to favor tanks in certain situations. And that balance cannot be fixed by only changing content, that would require impossibly strict content balancing and the healer role would still be to dilluted to avoid regular "healer not needed" situations for any slightly easier group content. Either healers need a massive buff, and all content needs to be reworked to accommodate that, or tank (self and team) heals need to be toned down.

Other games in the genre have no issue balancing increasing player power with encounters, why should this game be different? If you give players something powerful, create reasons for players to HAVE to use them or they fail, rather than the baseline difficulty staying the same while players get stronger.

Show me another MMO with a trinity healer role, where healer players are fine with a tank (like WAR) that heals its full health bar multiple times without losing dps and on a low cooldown, when fighting groups of enemies. And where healers can't maintain single target healing output higher then that tank's selfhealing against groups.

[Ramiee]

I agree with this, DRK feels like a relic compared to the other jobs when it comes to their short CD (TBN).

TBN... back when short CDs didn't come packaged with like 3 effects. lol.

[Launched]

I mean, they technically can.

I don't see how thinking HW WAR was well designed and saying that PLD/DRK could be improved while still leaving flaws makes it sound like I wanted all tanks to be the same.

[Lyth]

Your opening sentence was 'WAR is the standard every other job should live up to.'

This is the recursive loop that you use to maintain the status quo. When people point out that WAR is overpowered, it becomes 'WAR is well designed, it's the other jobs that have the problem.' When people suggest ways of eliminating that disparity, it quickly flips over to 'Don't homogenize the jobs.'

You need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes what benefits you personally is at odds with what is needed for the tank role and game as a whole. It's not just tanks that are affected by the design choices around WAR. Other roles are now being impacted as well.

I don't think that a solution can wait until 8.0. At the very least, I hope that they were smart enough to quietly rebalance WAR's self-healing through stat/level scaling.

[Supersnow845]

This seems to be the state of every thread regarding WAR

-WAR needs some kind of nerf or scaling change
1) don’t change bloodwhetting/SIO/holmgang it’s a well designed skill buff the other tanks to compensate

-okay here are some changes to the other tanks (ignoring healers) to compensate
2) that’s just job homogenisation, why can’t WAR just have this niche

-okay how about we nerf WAR’s damage so it can be the support tank and better reflect its complexity
3) nerfs don’t work you should buff the other tanks- return to point 2


Every thread with WAR boils down to every change that buffs WAR is good, every change that inadvertently nerfs WAR (basically by buffing anyone else) is bad and the circular logic reinforces this

This is to say nothing of if square implanted every buff WAR mains suggested for the other tanks so that they never have to receive a nerf by 8.0 tanks will all three roles in one doing better damage than the DPS and more healing than the healers

SCH outright received a nerf to its best ever skill in EW and SCH mains just swallowed it, why is it so hard for WAR mains

[GoatOfWar]

This seems to be the state of every thread regarding WAR

-WAR needs some kind of nerf or scaling change
1) don’t change bloodwhetting/SIO/holmgang it’s a well designed skill buff the other tanks to compensate

-okay here are some changes to the other tanks (ignoring healers) to compensate
2) that’s just job homogenisation, why can’t WAR just have this niche

-okay how about we nerf WAR’s damage so it can be the support tank and better reflect its complexity
3) nerfs don’t work you should buff the other tanks- return to point 2


Every thread with WAR boils down to every change that buffs WAR is good, every change that inadvertently nerfs WAR (basically by buffing anyone else) is bad and the circular logic reinforces this

This is to say nothing of if square implanted every buff WAR mains suggested for the other tanks so that they never have to receive a nerf by 8.0 tanks will all three roles in one doing better damage than the DPS and more healing than the healers

SCH outright received a nerf to its best ever skill in EW and SCH mains just swallowed it, why is it so hard for WAR mains

Welcome to what tank mains have been dealing with for the past 6 years.

[Ramiee]

The gimmicks of each tank has been so diluted besides WAR lol.
A new player will see WAR life drain and instantly know it's entire deal but with any other tank they won't get it. Is Gunbreaker the damage tank? No it's damage is the same as everyone else. Is DRK the mage tank? No PLD also uses magic. I think new players might only view PLD as the support tank because of passage of arms but even then warriors support move is just a better version of PLDs. Despite how awkward Dark Arts was at least it gave DRK an identity different from both tanks at the time. I'm not saying we need it back but I will say every single tank needs to have something that makes them unique from the other tanks.

[GoatOfWar]

The gimmicks of each tank has been so diluted besides WAR lol.
A new player will see WAR life drain and instantly know it's entire deal but with any other tank they won't get it. Is Gunbreaker the damage tank? No it's damage is the same as everyone else. Is DRK the mage tank? No PLD also uses magic. I think new players might only view PLD as the support tank because of passage of arms but even then warriors support move is just a better version of PLDs. Despite how awkward Dark Arts was at least it gave DRK an identity different from both tanks at the time. I'm not saying we need it back but I will say every single tank needs to have something that makes them unique from the other tanks.

Everything has been streamlined except Warrior.
Every other tank had it's identity streamlined.

[Absurdity]

Everything has been streamlined except Warrior.
Every other tank had it's identity streamlined.

Streamlined is probably the wrong word, no tank is more streamlined than Warrior, they've long since sandblasted all the edges from that job.

[Oizen]

SCH outright received a nerf to its best ever skill in EW and SCH mains just swallowed it, why is it so hard for WAR mains

It should also be noted that unless they change this by live they actually nerfed DRK's sustain slightly by reducing its mp generation under Delirium/Bloodweapon.
They also saw it fit to give WAR a 3rd regen.