speak with your wallet if you feel unheard

[Reimmi]

You have more than one button to push.

This isn't an action game. It's a role-playing game where combat is just one of many activities.

It's rather ironic that this game actually has more buttons you need to push than most action games and yet you pretend there is only one button to push.

I assume they're a healer main
and its definitely almost true. press your dot, spam 1 button because this game doesn't need healing often enough for you to have a healing rotation

[Jojoya]

Roleplaying game..... I'm sorry my dude but you're late to the party they killed all the RPG elements like 2-3 expacs ago and now they are doubling down on that decision.
Roleplaying game would imply we have stats and builds we can do, O wait they removed stat allocation didn't they.

There's far more to roleplaying that job stats and builds. That might have been a feature of many of the old TTRPGs but it wasn't a feature of all of them and has never been a feature of all CRPGs.

I can remember playing many RPGs over the years where stats never came into play. You were tossed into an adventure and set loose to find your way as is.

If it's a feature that you personally look for when choosing a game to play, I can understand your disappointment. But it is not true to say the game has no roleplaying elements.

I assume they're a healer main
and its definitely almost true. press your dot, spam 1 button because this game doesn't need healing often enough for you to have a healing rotation

I'm a healer main. I am most definitely pressing more than Dia and Glare when I'm in a group instanced duty.

It's one thing to say that a group of highly skilled players have managed to complete content without a healer.

It's another to imply that an average skilled group of players can easily do the same thing. It's simply not happening. They don't have the tools. At best you end up with a good tank soloing bosses while the rest of the party is floor tanking because they lacked a healer.

Do I feel for the highly skilled players who enjoy healing and wish they had better opportunities to display their skill as healers than picking up the floor tanks? Yes. But the job design team doesn't seem to have grasped how to create jobs that work together as a team instead of creating jobs that are more self-reliant. They keep working toward giving jobs self-sufficiency, which isn't even needed in solo content since solo duties provide us with buffs that increased health regen and other benefits, instead of trying to make them interdependent as should be needed for group content. Such self-sufficiency causes the healing role to be greatly devalued when in a group of highly skilled players.

Fortunately for some of us healers, most players aren't that highly skilled. There is a need for us to be actual healers and not just green DPS that throws out an occasional AoE heal to keep the party from bottoming out. I had the fun of healing Tower of Zot the other night with a tank that did not use their defensive cooldowns at all. Seriously. Making sure he stayed alive meant I had little time for green DPS.

That still doesn't help those who are highly skilled, enjoy healing, and play with highly skilled players.

[LianaThorne]

I assume they're a healer main
and its definitely almost true. press your dot, spam 1 button because this game doesn't need healing often enough for you to have a healing rotation

SCH in dungeon hallways:
Slap Excog on tank -> AoE spam

SCH in bosses:
Slap Excog on tank -> DoT -> Broil spam

If running with a WAR, only spam attacks since healing is literally irrelevant with their AoE heals + shields.

So much fun

[Malthir]

How am I supposed to leave feedback without playing the content myself. I know a lot of changes dont appeal to me at all, there are so many jobs with identity crisis and lame rotations. But canceling my preorder is the least thing, that would help making this game better. And I'd like to prevent FFXIV becoming even more casual by voicing my opinion in this hell.

The problem isn't the "Casual" it's actually the high end raiders, those that push for their shiny colour on a website don't want complexity in the jobs they want streamlined rotations that work well inside the 2m buffs. That's the reason why the classes are becoming more homogenised and most of the job identities are being gutted, the race to world first players are the ones to blame not the casual players, hell most of the casuals don't even know of the forums existence, how are they feeding back their dislikes?

There's far more to roleplaying that job stats and builds. That might have been a feature of many of the old TTRPGs but it wasn't a feature of all of them and has never been a feature of all CRPGs.

I can remember playing many RPGs over the years where stats never came into play. You were tossed into an adventure and set loose to find your way as is.

If it's a feature that you personally look for when choosing a game to play, I can understand your disappointment. But it is not true to say the game has no roleplaying elements.

No it's a core design of RPG's where you have the option to customise your characters usually in particular stat builds.
Take all the standard FF series bar that abomination called 16. Every single one allowed you to build your character customising the party whether it be actual stat and job options, or customisable additional effects being able to to adjust stats and additional effects is a core tenant of all RPG's. If you're playing a game that doesn't allow for this in any way shape or form, what you're actually playing is a Character Action Game, these have some customisation options but are generally incredibly limited as to what you actually control and reasonable are all fake choices as it doesn't really impact gameplay what so ever.

Tell me what RPG elements are actually in 14?
Stats are all pre determined by you class
Classes are completely locked in gear choice, ability set, stat set, additional effects, Everyone else plays the job exactly how you do because that's the only way you can play that job
Character Race has no functional impact other than visuals.
Starting city and Free company factions Zero inpact in game all options are the same as one another and cross shared on any story elements past level 35 so will likely get removed next expac when they try and streamline the terrible new player experience.

Character visual customisation (which is incredibly limited) is not an RPG element it's present in lots of game and not indicative of an RPG.
Customising an outfit also not a RPG element.

So what pray tell do they have that's RPG?

[Galvuu]

This isn't an action game. It's a role-playing game where combat is just one of many activities.

I'm not gonna bother with the general discussion (although I agree with the general sentiment that combat in this game has grown stale and very unrewarding), but I want to focus on this one aspect.

FFXIV is awful as a role-playing game. There's is a plethora of small things the game could do to enhance its core role-playing aspects. Aside from the (already mentioned) nonexistent customization, from a pure roleplay perspective, the game is still awful.
XIV could offer a myriad things- dialogue and cutscenes that are customizable based on your leveled jobs- something as simple as the often requested healing jobs actually healing injured people in cutscenes, but different animations when interacting with an enemy (instead of everyone punching Zenos in a certain cutscene, have a distinct animation for every combat job), or slightly branching story quests/dialogues (for example, grant me the option, if I have crafters leveled, to help Cid built whatever plot device machine he's working on for the MSQ by doing some EX crafts). It irks me to no end that my character, an omni-caster, omni-healer and omni-crafter with 4k Intelligence, apparently cannot, in any capacity, meaningfully contribute to any conversation about aether, or magic, or Allagan relics, or anything at all. The last time I remember anything like this, it was a single line in a dialogue with Urianger about the weather in ShB.
XIV also has no affection system whatsoever (not even necessarily romantic- imagine if, due to high affection with Allisae or Estinien, a cutscene changes and one of them intervenes to block a blow aimed at my character, or something like that), and the few dialogue choices you're given have absolute no impact (imagine if branching dialogue led to two different single player trials with slightly different outcomes). I know XIV is constrained due to being an MMO, but the narrative roleplaying this game offers me is literally on the same ballpark as what was offered by Pokemon Red/Blue on the Gameboy 27 years ago.
I'm not asking for BG3-levels of roleplay here, but there are so many little things that the game could do to help me feel more immersed in my character and the world.
And this is all made worse by the fact the only role you play 99% of the time is tied to combat. That's the "role-playing" XIV offers- go kill this, go beat that. So, if the combat suffers, the small angle I have in terms of roleplaying suffers more.

Comparisons to ttrpgs are a bit silly because those games are much more customizable and offer a breadth of rules for social interaction or explorative, open-ended content. People complain DnD only focuses on the combat pillar (and it's true, 80% of the rules in that system are about combat), but XIV only has emotes, glamour (which is quite limited) and the adventurer plates. Sure, people can role-play by using the game as a medium for improv acting or role-playing, but that can be done in almost any medium... it can even do with no medium at all.
I genuinely think this is one of the most neglected aspects and untapped areas of potential in XIV, and it irks me to no end...

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

I just want to point out that "speaking with your wallet" is a big fallacy.

If you unsub, the only message you're sending is "I don't care anymore, do whatever you want". If you want things to change, giving feedback is more important than radio silence and hoping things will change eventually.

But if you really don't care anymore, then unsubbing is fine.

Speaking as a former game dev, voting with your wallet is in fact the best way to go.

If you give feedback yet still continue to give the company money, you're literally telling them "I may dislike what you do, but it doesn't matter since I'll be paying you no matter what you may try". Negative feedback is irrelevant when you have record-high profits on the current development path you're taking. If you continue to give them money despite their choices in game design, you give them the thumbs up to ignore you completely since your opinion doesn't matter; you'll be coughing up the money regardless.

Like, take FF14 itself for example. People want to complain and moan all they like about the direction the game is going, but from an industry perspective and from data I've personally witnesses at my time at Ubisoft, Square is exactly on track where they need to be. Why do you think games as a whole have become far more watered down and casualized as time goes on? Because they're literally the majority of gamers in this day and age. They're where the money is. Despite the endless complaints about SMN, it's one of the most popular and played jobs in the game, bar none.

Why do you think Battle passes, Microtransactions, Gacha, F2p, despite being widely hated systems, have continued to flourish? Because even though gamers want to complain all they want and give endless negative feedback, they still give them money for these things. (Spoiler alert: it ain't even the whales alone either. The game I had worked on at Ubisoft had a 72% purchase rate for the battle pass in it, in a game that had a million+ sales.) The only time feedback ever truly matters in the AAA industry is when their profits are hurting.

If you don't like where the game is heading, do both. Leave your feedback, and vote with your wallet by exiting stage left. If the people complaining are truly in the majority and not just the vocal minority Square can safely ignore and continue to get the exact same revenue stream with while continuing to optimize the game to better draw in the huge crowd of casual gamers that gives them the big $$$, then they'll be forced to look at the feedback when their profits are hurting.

That's like the only thing you ever say here rofl

Because they're right, especially when it comes to live service games. AAA studios do in face hire psychologists / experts on human behaviors in order to help them design game systems and reward structures that are designed to implant a deep desire to keep playing and to make it as hard as possible for the average player to quit due to mental attachment to the game and their character. That's why lots of AAA studios are comfortable ignoring their playerbase's feedback, when a majority of them will be merely all bark and no bite due to sunk cost, mental attachments, etc to their IP, brand, etc.

[AnnRam]

That's actually a great idea about how to deal when you are not happy with something.

Also don't forget to add -> Delete your character and tell the ISP to block Square sites from your router I'm pretty sure that's gonna hurt them.

[caffe_macchiato]

Final Fantasy XIV is mass-market sloppa designed to hold up a dying company. The only complexity is the brief one-second dopamine hit you get from dodging the orange circle. It has less depth than a first-person shooter. As someone who exclusively plays FFXIV and retro games, I am fine with minimalism. Making spreadsheets on The Balance Discord is not a video game, it's a chore that you do for social standing in your clique. Real people do not find 4x Transpose BLM fun and no one wants to type a missive with every rotation. Pressing buttons in order is not gameplay. Dodging circles is gameplay, especially when many players are bad at it (including me). Video games that encourage sensory overload either flame out (see every other MMO) or only benefit a small clique of minmaxers.

[Rekh]

You all arguing in circles. I'll make it easy for you, play 7.0 and quit right after you finished msq and whatever quests you like. That's gonna take less than a week or 2. After that it's best to quit until they improve the game; so you'll be voting with wallet while still purchasing the new glamours and walking around in them for a week or 2.

For me I know Guild Wars 2's gonna be my mmo by august; that game actually has plenty to do past "msq." Elden Ring's DLC is gonna get some serious work from me as well.

xiv isn't that special anymore; it used to be known as "hard working devs that cram 2-3 dungeons per patch every 3 months."
Now? It's excuse after excuse every 4 years.

PS. That lie that Shb/Ew dungeons have more quality than Realm Reborn or Heavensward dungeons is hilarious to me. ARR and HW dungeons stand up to anything they've created in endwalker. So much so that ARR rarely used "zone lines" to divide the dungeon, but that's all you see in ffxiv now, bunch of "zone lines" when they should've just let us run/sprint; like that "walk on water" part in Dohn Mheg.

[Galvuu]

Final Fantasy XIV is mass-market sloppa designed to hold up a dying company. The only complexity is the brief one-second dopamine hit you get from dodging the orange circle. It has less depth than a first-person shooter. As someone who exclusively plays FFXIV and retro games, I am fine with minimalism. Making spreadsheets on The Balance Discord is not a video game, it's a chore that you do for social standing in your clique. Real people do not find 4x Transpose BLM fun and no one wants to type a missive with every rotation. Pressing buttons in order is not gameplay. Dodging circles is gameplay, especially when many players are bad at it (including me). Video games that encourage sensory overload either flame out (see every other MMO) or only benefit a small clique of minmaxers.

I don't know why you keep posting stuff like this. Some people enjoy solving problems/coming up with a plan, and then executing it. They approach encounters like a puzzle they need to solve- part of the satisfaction is in cracking that puzzle, and the other half is in bringing that plan to fruition in combat. Many of the people who you keep deriding in your comments by "making spreadsheets for social standing" (what social standing? Playing an MMO is the quickest way to lose social credit in most circles) do it because they enjoy it. Because they like solving the puzzle, or execute a plan, or see big numbers. This kinda puzzle solving is similar to the magic of progging an Ultimate and figuring things out on your own. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Sure, a minority might do it for some twisted sense of pride or clout, but I very much doubt this is the majority.

Also, if "pressing buttons in order isn't gameplay", I guess a lot of rhythm games like Muse Dash or FnF and fighters like DBFZ aren't games then lol