New Benchmark (June): Au Ra Feedback

[mk-sein]

Sorry to jump in like this, but I really don't see what the point of linking all those Twitter posts is.

A lot of people in this very thread are pointing out what they like about the changes, it's not all negative. Many people are going "I like this new thing but I don't like this other new thing because of these reasons". There are a few people being very negative, but you'll find those everywhere.

Posting external feedback for a character that isn't yours seems unnecessary to me (exception would be a person posting on behalf of one friend who can't use the forum). If all those Twitter posters want to show how happy they are with the changes, I think they are welcome to do that here themselves.
You, too, are welcome to share what you love about your Au Ra. Dozens of links to random posts just comes across as "See, everything is perfect now, don't you dare ask for any further changes because I am happy and that is all that matters".

If that isn't what you wanted to express with your post, I apologize, but it's getting very irritating that legitimate feedback that the devs asked for keeps being shot down by other people.

[Plushy]

Sorry to jump in like this, but I really don't see what the point of linking all those Twitter posts is.

A lot of people in this very thread are pointing out what they like about the changes, it's not all negative. Many people are going "I like this new thing but I don't like this other new thing because of these reasons". There are a few people being very negative, but you'll find those everywhere.

Posting external feedback for a character that isn't yours seems unnecessary to me (exception would be a person posting on behalf of one friend who can't use the forum). If all those Twitter posters want to show how happy they are with the changes, I think they are welcome to do that here themselves.
You, too, are welcome to share what you love about your Au Ra. Dozens of links to random posts just comes across as "See, everything is perfect now, don't you dare ask for any further changes because I am happy and that is all that matters".

If that isn't what you wanted to express with your post, I apologize, but it's getting very irritating that legitimate feedback that the devs asked for keeps being shot down by other people.

I posted feedback from X because on the forums, it tends to look one sided and this is what every female au ra player wants.
Since most people don't like posting on the forums because it can be pretty hostile they post on X or other sns.
Me posting these wasn't to say "everything is perfect everything is fine" and rather it was to show its not as one sided as most people might expect and since I do like the changes...I posted these peoples opinions from X that were highly popular.
If I don't say anything SE won't know people like them.
Just like how you and others here are posting what they don't like. Me posting those tweets isn't me dismissing your worries, its me showing that tons of people like the new au ra rather than dislike. Don't you think I have a right to post about what I like and request to not revert the things I like, just as much as you have a right to post what you don't like and ask to revert things you don't like?
I'm not shooting any of your guys feedback down at all if anything....with respect its actually the opposite happening...by few of you telling me posting feedback from X doesn't count.

Plushy, in the tweets you link it's not always clear what the users' opinions are regarding the pupils. Unfortunately a census of posts isn't a good replacement for a "poll" of user opinions on something so specific. In either case, what's most important is that the developers keep their promise that the updated characters will resemble the old ones. Doing otherwise creates a disparity between words and actions that erodes trust.

From a technical standpoint, what I'm guessing happened is that Au Ra currently don't have a unique eye texture like they do in the current build-- they currently use the same diffuse map as Hyur, Roegadyn and Elezen. To me this implies (but does not confirm) that the asset is incomplete/unfinished and is likely to be changed, as other assets have been updated to include unique racial characteristics over time. However, anything could happen. I hope that both large and small pupils become available, as it's clear you really enjoy them.

They wouldn't use an unfinished assets for both benchmarks (more so because this current benchmark is what we're getting in-game). This is how SE wanted them to look and about the tweets, yes you can't really tell what specifically they liked in all of them but the point of the tweets was to show they liked the new au ra overall so this includes skin, eyes, scale/horn textures and among other things, some of them even outright said they love how pretty the eyes are or they just flat out say X au ra is so cute now so its pretty valid feedback of how they like the change.
Also I know you guys keep bringing up yoshi-p said he wants to keep characters as close as possible,however he also said characters won't look 100% the same and this is why he's giving everybody a fantasia. I'm not trying to put words in his mouth but this tells me he's aware not everything is going to look 1:1 due to higher polygons, better shadows and lighting and textures.

I mean, I am more than happy to have these new face sculpts, eyes etc. as options.
A lot of people give very detailed examples as to what they dislike and why. Which as far as feedback goes is worth a lot more than shouting "it is so pretty!". Ignoring that maybe not everyone wants their character to be pretty but instead maybe have a bit more of a rugged feel.

I don't think its fair for you to judge what feedback is more worth.
Negative feedback usually is more detailed than positive, someone saying "I love my au ra, she's so pretty now" is still good positive feedback because it tells them what they did was right and people like it. People usually don't go into full on detail about why they like something unless they're writing a formal review.
But overall. I don't think you or me have the right to say what type of feedback is more worth. SE asked for feedback and people are giving it no matter how they do it. If someone says "I love my au ra, thank you se" that's feedback for them.

[mk-sein]

I posted feedback from X because on the forums, it tends to look one sided and this is what every female au ra player wants.
Since most people don't like posting on the forums because it can be pretty hostile they post on X or other sns.

It's not one-sided, though. There is positive feedback in this very thread.

And if you truly believe that these people don't post on the forums because they are scared of getting harassed, then you posting links to their accounts, without their permission, on the place they are supposedly scared of is opening them up to harassment. A very miserable and bitter forum poster, who is unhappy with their Au Ra, now has an easily accessible list of people who hold a very different opinion. I don't believe this has happened yet (and I sure hope it has not happened and will not happen), but I think this is a very bad argument.
If I post on the forums, I am weighing the risks myself. If someone else posts my tweets on the forum, I have no control over that.

Me posting these wasn't to say "everything is perfect everything is fine" and rather it was to show its not as one sided as most people might expect and since I do like the changes...I posted these peoples Don't you think I have a right to post about what I like and request to not revert the things I like, just as much as you have a right to post what you don't like and ask to revert things you don't like?
I'm not shooting any of your guys feedback down at all if anything....with respect its actually the opposite happening...by few of you telling me posting feedback from X doesn't count.

I'm not sure anyone actually believes this to be a one-sided issue. There's "I love this, my character looks so much better now", "I hate this, my character is ruined" and "I like some parts and dislike others" on the forums, on Twitter, on Reddit. (And probably more platforms but I don't frequent those.)
All of them have a range of opinions.

I am also of the belief that most people who are unhappy are not against options. Personally, I don't like how my character's mouth looks in the Benchmark because it's very different. I have seen people express how happy they are with the exact same new mouth.
If there was a way to implement both options, old and new, then the majority of people would be happy. I don't know how realistic adding Character Creator options is at the moment, but maybe the devs will see all the feedback, both positive and negative, and decide that this should be a priority going forward.

Lastly, I personally do not think posting curated Twitter links that are not your own thoughts are feedback. I told you that you are welcome to share your own thoughts, on your own character. There's a few posts in this thread that are basically "Here's my character, they look so good now! Thank you!", but this is all about their own character. I don't see the point in posting a stranger's feedback.

[Plushy]

Isnip.

Nobody is going to head to their twitter to just say "hey you're wrong btw" and harass don't be silly, you're just being hyperbolic. More so when its so random and twitter has things like blocking and hidden comments, nobody is going to risk themself getting banned on X just because someone said they like their au ra on their own post.

and not to be rude but I think we're reading two different things. Multiple(meaning not everybody) people are not really happy here and if you look on the JP forums nearly every last au ra player isn't happy and wants something changed.
I think you're under the impression I'm saying people are being super rude with their opinion when that's not what I'm saying at all or what I mean by -one sided- when I say one sided I mean people are in favor of having things adjusted instead of just being happy the way it is. I'm not implying said person giving criticism is being bitter, rude and nasty.

and I'm sure people are not against options.
I never suggested or implied that they were and I have posted my own thoughts...I even posted two different threads of mine.....I feel you didn't read my post or click any of the links. Not to sound rude but I think you're just replying to me for the sake of disagreeing with me if you missed the two things I posted that shown my opinion as I said multiple times I love the new au ra look and more so the eyes. Those are my thoughts.

I do like that you decided to ignore the other parts of the discussion about giving people options and the part about me saying that not everybody necessarily wants an Au ra that is pretty.

Regardless, we can definitely judge the quality of feedback. It isn't that feedback is some weird mystical affirmation or rejection of which the quality is up to the reader. The more detailed the feedback is the better it is. And "Is so pretty" is not very detailed. If they went into detail as to what they like compared to before similar to what people here do as to what they dislike compared to before. Then the two would be equal.

After all, "Is so pretty" could be an affirmation of the improved textures and higher amount of polygons in the sculpt. But this is not what people here complain about.

I didn't ignore it. I just didn't address it because I don't disagree with more options. If you read my other threads I even suggest the best option is to add two sets of pupils and also...the bigger pupils won't automatically make your au ra pretty depending how you look...
Also I disagree about your opinion of Feedback.
Feedback is good no matter what unless its clearly a troll reply.
If you give someone food and you ask if you like it, you would no doubt accept both a detailed reply and a simple, "yeah its actually really good." as that tells you "ok guess I'll keep making it like that then".

[mk-sein]

(quote)

Heads up, this will be my last post on this particular topic as I'm tired and I'm getting too off topic for my personal comfort.

I was being hyperbolic, yes, but personally, I would be really irritated if someone reposted my thoughts on a forum I might not even have access to.

I admit that I haven't really looked at the JP forums as I can't read enough Japanese to truly grasp what they're saying.
And I don't actually think that, no. We have the same definition of one-sided, I just think the forums are less one-sided than you are saying. They do lean a certain way though, I won't deny that. I assume this is because unhappy people are more likely to speak up than happy people.
I'm guessing that you agree with that part, hence you posting those links. I just believe posting those links was not the right way to go about it.

I didn't click every link, but I did look at a few of them, and I do want to state that I am happy that other players are happy. People should be happy with their characters. Unfortunately, not all of us are, and that is why we are happy. I am in no way upset someone else likes the changes, though.
I may have missed parts of your initial posts because I personally look for pictures in a feedback thread like this. Not everyone does that, and it's probably not a good habit to have, but if there is just a wall of links that ends with "I love my character!", I will skim that post. Of course, it's okay if you don't want to post screencaps of your Au Ra, but to me, feedback on a visual upgrade that provides no visuals feels kind of useless. The devs might think differently, though.

So, I am happy you are happy with the changes. I only wish for you to realize that posting dozens of Twitter links was not the best way to give feedback, and that is why people are irritated with you. Have a good night (or day).

[Sekhar]

I didn't ignore it. I just didn't address it because I don't disagree with more options. If you read my other threads I even suggest the best option is to add two sets of pupils and also...the bigger pupils won't automatically make your au ra pretty depending how you look...
Also I disagree about your opinion of Feedback.
Feedback is good no matter what unless its clearly a troll reply.
If you give someone food and you ask if you like it, you would no doubt accept both a detailed reply and a simple, "yeah its actually really good." as that tells you "ok guess I'll keep making it like that then".

Ignoring and not addressing are the exact same things with different words but I am glad you address now that you would prefer if they don't just change things but instead add these changes as options. Also, the "pretty" is an argument you brought up via the random people on twitter not me. I am simply pointing out that through your choice of defenders you are completely ignoring that some people do not want their character to just look pretty. Some peoples character might have something else than just look pretty and they feel that is no longer represented by the more puffy faces, the big eyes etc.
If they made all these changes options I would be singing their praises. But they didn't, hence I see no reason to not criticize their choices while addressing what exactly I dislike in order for them to understand my points.


Also to your second part, I never said that the feedback is bad. I said it is worse than the feedback given here.
To take your weird food analogy it is like the difference between:
"It is good" versus "It is not that good because you added too much salt and kept the food too long on the stove."
Independent of the intent behind the feedback, one allows you to hone in on the issue/good things far more accurately than the other. Hence the two types of feedback are not equal.

[Sekhar]

I don't think its fair for you to judge what feedback is more worth.
Negative feedback usually is more detailed than positive, someone saying "I love my au ra, she's so pretty now" is still good positive feedback because it tells them what they did was right and people like it. People usually don't go into full on detail about why they like something unless they're writing a formal review.
But overall. I don't think you or me have the right to say what type of feedback is more worth. SE asked for feedback and people are giving it no matter how they do it. If someone says "I love my au ra, thank you se" that's feedback for them.

I do like that you decided to ignore the other parts of the discussion about giving people options and the part about me saying that not everybody necessarily wants an Au ra that is pretty.

Regardless, we can definitely judge the quality of feedback. It isn't that feedback is some weird mystical affirmation or rejection of which the quality is up to the reader. The more detailed the feedback is the better it is. And "Is so pretty" is not very detailed. If they went into detail as to what they like compared to before similar to what people here do as to what they dislike compared to before. Then the two would be equal.

After all, "Is so pretty" could be an affirmation of the improved textures and higher amount of polygons in the sculpt. But this is not what people here complain about.