New Benchmark (June): Au Ra Feedback

[Plushy]

Honestly, you have just as much, or more people on the forums with issues. Not sure you can drawn any sort of conclusion from a handful of twitter posts in regards to the community at large. In fact, some of the posts were actually saying that they had the same issues related on this thread.

I'm glad that they like their new look (and good positive information to pass along), but it doesn't mean that they didn't like their old one too

Sorry I should have clarified I do have more tweets/posts collected but...its around 120ish (including the ones I've posted and reddit posts) and I did NOT want to post all of that since nobody would even click every single one ^^;;; so I opted to just post the highest liked ones which were 5.9k at the highest and a couple of people just saying they like their au ra even if they don't have high likes which are around 1-100 likes.

Now to explain how I came to this conclusion.
I took the average likes the forums had (Using the Japanese because for the English, every au ra post like amount is actually very small for the EN forums highest I think was only 30? but the english forums tend to not use the like button as much as the japanese and NA players prefer to comment at the person they agree with.) and compared to the likes twitter/X had on average and I think you can tell just from the newer posts I showcased, the posts on twitter are higher by a large amount.
Even if you combine multiple likes from the jp posts from popular au ra posts(highest was 200+ [when it was about face 4 female au ra] average was about 20 - 150 [Highest ones were about face 4 female au ra]), it still isn't enough to beat out the combine total of the highest X posts I show cased.
This also isn't taking in account the amount of comments of people saying how cute their au ra is which I count as people agreeing with said X/Twitter post and some of the comments also showing off their own au ra saying "look how cute my au ra is too." I count them.
((Also I did try to look for the most negative post on X FOR female au ra and the highest one I found was around 230+ and oddly enough, that same person also posted on the forums shortly after. It was a JP player and of course it was a face 4 au ra.))

I could also take the time to count the amount of unique au ra's that are posting on the forums as well and share my findings if you're still not convinced. Though will take a bit for the JP side since its way bigger thread, though I can filter at least by limitting it to au ra.
But for the EN side its actually quite small since I've observed the same au ra players posting their disappointment and most the unique au ra posters are from the JP side. (I mean unique as different au ra players posting) But this also because EN players tend to think SE doesn't read the EN forums (which isn't true) so they post on the JP forums which makes EN au ra's look very small.

[SchwarzwaelderTorte]

Plushy please refer to the reply (replies, I might as well say at this point) I gave you on the JP thread...
You might also want to look into survivorship bias.

[Windfire]

This statement confuses me. The pupils ARE bigger now and many of us want the original smaller ones, so we're asking for the new to be taken away and the old returned.

Yes, what's been shown in benchmark is large pupils ie taking away what we've always had (small pupils). I do NOT like large pupils (never made a moon cat for that reason) and with all the other changes on top of that to my Au Ra girl (eye shape, nose & mouth all changed) she's essentially being taken away from me as none of the options are even close to how she looks currently.

[Plushy]

Plushy please refer to the reply (replies, I might as well say at this point) I gave you on the JP thread...
You might also want to look into survivorship bias.

I saw it. But I don't think it really applies/ I don't think its a good argument which is why I didn't reply both times you sent me that. [Rereading this part this sounded aggressive, please don't take this as such T^T] (and I didn't want to argue on the jp fourms and I also don't like arguing in general)
If someone can't do the benchmark and give their opinion then they just can't be counted and even if you want to count them. It could swing both ways, they could be happy or sad about the change which is why I didn't reply both times so what if about 70% like the changes? and honestly a lot of the console players tend to get their friend to create it for them.
Also I'm aware of the differences in how JP and EN use the forums but in the end, they all still reply the same and both give out opinions and it isn't that much of a huge difference between the two other than JP liking comments WAY more likely than EN. They're not THAT much difference other than EN also being more aggressive more often as well and don't post in compact threads and rather make their own threads.

I also don't think survivorship bias applies as well because when looking for feedback and you want to compare, you have to separate the two. Which I'm doing for forums and X. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by that. But even if I am, just by reading that I don't agree.
Because I feel this could be applied when talking about any differences in feedback between communities and sns. Sorry I didn't really read much into whats that suppose to mean so I could be misunderstanding what you're trying to say....never heard of this before.

But rather than just trying to deflect my findings why not try to counter it with your own findings? because I'm convinced that more people are in favor of the new au ra than old just based on X/reddit posts alone.

Since the fourms is usually negative I can't find much proof here if you wanted me to find positive posts here rather than looking else where.

[Aadrian1234]

Sorry I should have clarified I do have more tweets/posts collected but...its around 120ish (including the ones I've posted and reddit posts) and I did NOT want to post all of that since nobody would even click every single one ^^;;; so I opted to just post the highest liked ones which were 5.9k at the highest and a couple of people just saying they like their au ra even if they don't have high likes which are around 1-100 likes.

Now to explain how I came to this conclusion.
I took the average likes the forums had (Using the Japanese because for the English, every au ra post like amount is actually very small for the EN forums highest I think was only 30? but the english forums tend to not use the like button as much as the japanese and NA players prefer to comment at the person they agree with.) and compared to the likes twitter/X had on average and I think you can tell just from the newer posts I showcased, the posts on twitter are higher by a large amount.
Even if you combine multiple likes from the jp posts from popular au ra posts(highest was 200+ [when it was about face 4 female au ra] average was about 20 - 150 [Highest ones were about face 4 female au ra]), it still isn't enough to beat out the combine total of the highest X posts I show cased.
This also isn't taking in account the amount of comments of people saying how cute their au ra is which I count as people agreeing with said X/Twitter post and some of the comments also showing off their own au ra saying "look how cute my au ra is too." I count them.
((Also I did try to look for the most negative post on X FOR female au ra and the highest one I found was around 230+ and oddly enough, that same person also posted on the forums shortly after. It was a JP player and of course it was a face 4 au ra.))

I could also take the time to count the amount of unique au ra's that are posting on the forums as well and share my findings if you're still not convinced. Though will take a bit for the JP side since its way bigger thread, though I can filter at least by limitting it to au ra.
But for the EN side its actually quite small since I've observed the same au ra players posting their disappointment and most the unique au ra posters are from the JP side. (I mean unique as different au ra players posting) But this also because EN players tend to think SE doesn't read the EN forums (which isn't true) so they post on the JP forums which makes EN au ra's look very small.

Tweets get way more visibility and reach than forum posts, these aren't accurate comparisons.

[Plushy]

Tweets get way more visibility and reach than forum posts, these aren't accurate comparisons.

Its actually not that easy (in fact its actually hard) to get viability and reach on twitter unless you're already big with around 5k followers or more.
The fact that most of the accounts I linked have less than that shows just how much people liked the new au ra, so though you're correct its not a totally 1:1 its still valid for comparison, more so because most the accounts I linked are not big accounts with large followings.
This on top of HUGE amount of likes with 5k which isn't common for a ff14 post btw (average like range is really low with I want to say 100+ being the highest if heavily edited) and again just shows you how much people think the new au ra looks great.

There are also first time posters coming onto the forums, more so for the Japanese side, so the reach on the forums for ffxiv things is decent and a lot of people will see it, the jp thread about the character changes have 1mill views, so comparatively, you have a better chance getting noticed on that thread than twitter.
So I do want to repeat yes its not 1:1 but its still usable just due to ffxiv posts on X normally don't do all that well and the fact these did do extremely (I need to repeat just how much 5k is a MASSIVE amount) well even though its SFW and just mug shots basically, shows people like this change and a majority of people that comment do actually play ffxiv and though probably a ton of the likes are not ffxiv players, it could be future FFXIV players which is what SE wants, so if au ra good looks can bring in new players its a win-win.

[mk-sein]

Sorry to jump in like this, but I really don't see what the point of linking all those Twitter posts is.

A lot of people in this very thread are pointing out what they like about the changes, it's not all negative. Many people are going "I like this new thing but I don't like this other new thing because of these reasons". There are a few people being very negative, but you'll find those everywhere.

Posting external feedback for a character that isn't yours seems unnecessary to me (exception would be a person posting on behalf of one friend who can't use the forum). If all those Twitter posters want to show how happy they are with the changes, I think they are welcome to do that here themselves.
You, too, are welcome to share what you love about your Au Ra. Dozens of links to random posts just comes across as "See, everything is perfect now, don't you dare ask for any further changes because I am happy and that is all that matters".

If that isn't what you wanted to express with your post, I apologize, but it's getting very irritating that legitimate feedback that the devs asked for keeps being shot down by other people.

[Evermomo]

Plushy, in the tweets you link it's not always clear what the users' opinions are regarding the pupils. Unfortunately a census of posts isn't a good replacement for a "poll" of user opinions on something so specific. In either case, what's most important is that the developers keep their promise that the updated characters will resemble the old ones. Doing otherwise creates a disparity between words and actions that erodes trust.

From a technical standpoint, what I'm guessing happened is that Au Ra currently don't have a unique eye texture like they do in the current build-- they currently use the same diffuse map as Hyur, Roegadyn and Elezen. To me this implies (but does not confirm) that the asset is incomplete/unfinished and is likely to be changed, as other assets have been updated to include unique racial characteristics over time. However, anything could happen. I hope that both large and small pupils become available, as it's clear you really enjoy them.

[Plushy]

Sorry to jump in like this, but I really don't see what the point of linking all those Twitter posts is.

A lot of people in this very thread are pointing out what they like about the changes, it's not all negative. Many people are going "I like this new thing but I don't like this other new thing because of these reasons". There are a few people being very negative, but you'll find those everywhere.

Posting external feedback for a character that isn't yours seems unnecessary to me (exception would be a person posting on behalf of one friend who can't use the forum). If all those Twitter posters want to show how happy they are with the changes, I think they are welcome to do that here themselves.
You, too, are welcome to share what you love about your Au Ra. Dozens of links to random posts just comes across as "See, everything is perfect now, don't you dare ask for any further changes because I am happy and that is all that matters".

If that isn't what you wanted to express with your post, I apologize, but it's getting very irritating that legitimate feedback that the devs asked for keeps being shot down by other people.

I posted feedback from X because on the forums, it tends to look one sided and this is what every female au ra player wants.
Since most people don't like posting on the forums because it can be pretty hostile they post on X or other sns.
Me posting these wasn't to say "everything is perfect everything is fine" and rather it was to show its not as one sided as most people might expect and since I do like the changes...I posted these peoples opinions from X that were highly popular.
If I don't say anything SE won't know people like them.
Just like how you and others here are posting what they don't like. Me posting those tweets isn't me dismissing your worries, its me showing that tons of people like the new au ra rather than dislike. Don't you think I have a right to post about what I like and request to not revert the things I like, just as much as you have a right to post what you don't like and ask to revert things you don't like?
I'm not shooting any of your guys feedback down at all if anything....with respect its actually the opposite happening...by few of you telling me posting feedback from X doesn't count.

Plushy, in the tweets you link it's not always clear what the users' opinions are regarding the pupils. Unfortunately a census of posts isn't a good replacement for a "poll" of user opinions on something so specific. In either case, what's most important is that the developers keep their promise that the updated characters will resemble the old ones. Doing otherwise creates a disparity between words and actions that erodes trust.

From a technical standpoint, what I'm guessing happened is that Au Ra currently don't have a unique eye texture like they do in the current build-- they currently use the same diffuse map as Hyur, Roegadyn and Elezen. To me this implies (but does not confirm) that the asset is incomplete/unfinished and is likely to be changed, as other assets have been updated to include unique racial characteristics over time. However, anything could happen. I hope that both large and small pupils become available, as it's clear you really enjoy them.

They wouldn't use an unfinished assets for both benchmarks (more so because this current benchmark is what we're getting in-game). This is how SE wanted them to look and about the tweets, yes you can't really tell what specifically they liked in all of them but the point of the tweets was to show they liked the new au ra overall so this includes skin, eyes, scale/horn textures and among other things, some of them even outright said they love how pretty the eyes are or they just flat out say X au ra is so cute now so its pretty valid feedback of how they like the change.
Also I know you guys keep bringing up yoshi-p said he wants to keep characters as close as possible,however he also said characters won't look 100% the same and this is why he's giving everybody a fantasia. I'm not trying to put words in his mouth but this tells me he's aware not everything is going to look 1:1 due to higher polygons, better shadows and lighting and textures.

I mean, I am more than happy to have these new face sculpts, eyes etc. as options.
A lot of people give very detailed examples as to what they dislike and why. Which as far as feedback goes is worth a lot more than shouting "it is so pretty!". Ignoring that maybe not everyone wants their character to be pretty but instead maybe have a bit more of a rugged feel.

I don't think its fair for you to judge what feedback is more worth.
Negative feedback usually is more detailed than positive, someone saying "I love my au ra, she's so pretty now" is still good positive feedback because it tells them what they did was right and people like it. People usually don't go into full on detail about why they like something unless they're writing a formal review.
But overall. I don't think you or me have the right to say what type of feedback is more worth. SE asked for feedback and people are giving it no matter how they do it. If someone says "I love my au ra, thank you se" that's feedback for them.

[Loggos]

Plushy please refer to the reply (replies, I might as well say at this point) I gave you on the JP thread...
You might also want to look into survivorship bias.

Sorry for the slightly off-topic interjection but since you post on the Japanese side of the forum a lot could you perhaps post the link for the Japanese benchmark player feedback thread again? I lost it unfortunately. orz
Are they still using the old one or have they started a new one for the 1.1. benchmark?

I'm happy for everyone who likes their Au Ra in the new benchmark. Unfortunately for me, the things I'm unhappy with are still the same as they were in the first version. And while I don't expect or assume in any way that this should or could be fixed for DT's release I hope that feedback can perhaps still be taken into consideration in later patches or if/when the character creator overhaul arrives.