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  1. #1
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Noah Orih
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    See, that's why I think the split is a silly idea. If you want two healers to deal with 'Pure Healing' (or, bulk HP restoration in hard hitting scenarios like Harrowing Hell) and two to deal with mitigation/applying barriers (ie reducing the damage dealt by the hits of Harrowing Hell) then the end result of following that idea to its logical conclusion is that the two healers that do Pure Healing don't care about mitigation, and the two healers that do Mitigation/Barrier stuff don't care about Pure Healing. Effectively, all that this does is lock out the healers from interacting with the opposite side of 'healing design'.
    I'm not entirely against pure vs barrier healing if it were actually done well, but if I were going to lean into it, I think there is a way to resolve that issue. In order to explain, let me start by establishing what a healing action can cost.

    Any given healing action will have some sort of cost: MP; DPS; mobility, cooldown, or other resources (such as lilies or aetherflow).

    If White Mage is a pure healer, then their pure healing--their high-potency heals that allow them to resolve large healing checks effortlessly should be their primary method of healing and should come at minimal costs. Meanwhile, they can still have access to barrier and mitigation tools, but those actions feature all high costs. When paired with a barrier healer, the pure healer will generally rely on the barrier healer for those barrier mechanics, but can both assist and/or replace the barrier healer in a pinch at a steep cost. In other words it is significantly less efficient to be the barrier healer when you are the pure healer and vice versa.

    Like with my Sage example, it makes a negative amount of sense to me why they have a 2 regens on a 30 second and 60 second cooldown respectively--the 30 second cooldown actually restoring your MP mind you, when all their barriers either cost them DPS or sit on 2 minute cooldowns. It should be the other way around. I should have a party-wide barrier on a 30 second and 60 second cooldown. And maybe I have a regen on a 120 second cooldown, or a regen spell that costs a major chunk of MP and costs me DPS.

    But personally, I'd rather each healer have a more distinct healing style. Pure and barrier can be where those styles lean, but that each healer approaches both pure healing and barrier healing in their own unique ways. For example with barrier mechanics:

    Scholar has large, single-use barriers that block most of the damage.
    Sage directly reduces the damage taken by the party and has smaller, layered barriers.
    White Mage extends the party's Max HP so that they can soak more damage.
    Astrologian can cause damage to be staggered across several seconds.

    They're all different and have different strengths and weaknesses, but all four of those are able to function as barrier and mitigation mechanics.
    (2)
    Sage has failed to live up to the fantasy of a sci-fi DPS healer. Please change this for 8.0. Make Sage fast, exciting, and aggressive. It should feel like a healer that plays like a DPS. Empower the aspects of Sage's unique healing mechanics: Kardia and Eukrasia to give its healing playstyle more identity.

  2. #2
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
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    Apr 2019
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    2,340
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    I'm not entirely against pure vs barrier healing if it were actually done well, but if I were going to lean into it, I think there is a way to resolve that issue. In order to explain, let me start by establishing what a healing action can cost.

    Any given healing action will have some sort of cost: MP; DPS; mobility, cooldown, or other resources (such as lilies or aetherflow).

    If White Mage is a pure healer, then their pure healing--their high-potency heals that allow them to resolve large healing checks effortlessly should be their primary method of healing and should come at minimal costs.
    Exactly what I'm getting at. Where I suggest WHM having a Lily Spender that applies a barrier, it has to be considered that the barrier is weaker than the SCH/SGE equivalent, and also has no heal attached. It'd be much more efficient to use the Lily on healing after the damage, but the option is there in case it's needed (eg the SCH is dead and you need mit to live through a raidwide). I also feel that, with Lilies allowing for damage refund, that it's good to have this 'emergent gameplay' for groups to allow the WHM to handle applying certain shields, to save healer GCDs sometimes. But regardless of that, the barrier would have an opportunity cost: It is gated behind a resource with a 20s recharge (so you have to pick and choose where and when to use barriers), and it is not as strong as the Pure Heal alternative.

    To that end, it reminds me of what I wrote a while back about bringing back Nocturnal Sect, wherein AST would have only one way to apply 'barriers', and that's via their standard GCD (which should probably not be called Aspected Helios, if we're in a nighttime-related stance). So in a WHM/AST comp, the WHM would have to rely almost entirely on the AST to deal with % mitigation effects, and the AST would want to rely almost entirely on the WHM for applying Barriers, and more of the Pure Healing (as the OGCD healing throughput for AST would be a bit lower in Nocturnal).

    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    But personally, I'd rather each healer have a more distinct healing style. Pure and barrier can be where those styles lean, but that each healer approaches both pure healing and barrier healing in their own unique ways. For example with barrier mechanics:

    Scholar has large, single-use barriers that block most of the damage.
    Sage directly reduces the damage taken by the party and has smaller, layered barriers.
    White Mage extends the party's Max HP so that they can soak more damage.
    Astrologian can cause damage to be staggered across several seconds.

    They're all different and have different strengths and weaknesses, but all four of those are able to function as barrier and mitigation mechanics.
    See, these are especially interesting designwise, because the WHM and AST ones don't actually reduce the damage taken. If the WHM extends the party's Max HP by 10%, that extra 10% buffer has to come from a heal somewhere. If the AST staggers 20% of the damage taken to be dealt over the next 12s (5% per DOT tick), then that DOT still has to be healed through. Barrier healers, meanwhile, actively reduce the damage taken. That Sacred Soil or Kerachole reduces damage taken by 10%. That 10% is deleted from the game entirely. Also, AST staggering damage out would synergise with the, what is it, 3 different HOTs in their kit?
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
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    Noah Orih
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    See, these are especially interesting designwise, because the WHM and AST ones don't actually reduce the damage taken. If the WHM extends the party's Max HP by 10%, that extra 10% buffer has to come from a heal somewhere. If the AST staggers 20% of the damage taken to be dealt over the next 12s (5% per DOT tick), then that DOT still has to be healed through. Barrier healers, meanwhile, actively reduce the damage taken. That Sacred Soil or Kerachole reduces damage taken by 10%. That 10% is deleted from the game entirely. Also, AST staggering damage out would synergise with the, what is it, 3 different HOTs in their kit?
    I would say that staggered damage also can synergize with delayed healing, since it gives you more time to allow that delay time to pass.

    Also, I think it's interesting to assume how the stagger mechanic could work mechanically. I think the way that might be most FFXIV friendly would be that AST provides a buff that lasts for 10 seconds and reduces damage taken by 20%, storing that reduced value; then when the duration ends, that accumulated damage is taken over the next 12 seconds, and that would give you more time before you have to deal with the damage as well. That would prevent the effect from triggering a bunch of DOTs that bloat the buff/debuff limit on the party if they get hit a bunch of times during the effect duration. Could you imagine a tumult situation?
    (2)
    Sage has failed to live up to the fantasy of a sci-fi DPS healer. Please change this for 8.0. Make Sage fast, exciting, and aggressive. It should feel like a healer that plays like a DPS. Empower the aspects of Sage's unique healing mechanics: Kardia and Eukrasia to give its healing playstyle more identity.