Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

[Cyth_]

yea because the 'depth' of the current BLM is mostly enjoyed by the smarter & better than average players only, which is the minority. the average players dont really care about minmaxing thru nonstandard play. and the existence of nonstandard play is what makes BLM the special snowflake it is now. it makes BLM the only job with so much depths compared to the other jobs, and the purpose of removing the nonstandard play is to make BLM not sticking out like a sore thumb in terms of its depth when compared to the other job. A fair change, I must say. as a person who plays every single jobs decently, and minmaxes & optimizes everything as well, I agree that BLM needs to fall in line.

Why though? By your own admission, non-standard play is entirely optional and you can optimise BLM's damage output to a large extent without it? It's a 2% gain at absolute best, and getting that 2% requires such significant skill and planning that at that point it doesn't really matter what job that person is playing because they will crush anything the game throws at it.

After all these replies from people with a similar position, I am still left wondering why an option is a bad thing? Making all spells restore MP under Umbral Ice preserves this option for those who still want it, whilst giving other players who don't want to deal with MP ticks.

[Ianmaru]

Why though?...
After all these replies from people with a similar position, I am still left wondering why an option is a bad thing?

to answer simply, its not fair that BLM has the 'option', while every other jobs dont. it makes BLM too 'special' as a job. its either make BLM fall in line with the other jobs, or make all the other (currently) 18 jobs have the option for their own kind of nonstandard play. and the former is the easier one to do.

[Cyth_]

to answer simply, its not fair that BLM has the 'option', while every other jobs dont. it makes BLM too 'special' as a job. its either make BLM fall in line with the other jobs, or make all the other (currently) 18 jobs have the option for their own kind of nonstandard play. and the former is the easier one to do.

Other jobs did have options! It is because of feedback like this that they no longer do, BLM just happens to be one of the last holdouts. They are still clearly capable of designing jobs in such a way, such as the EW MNK rework (which they are now bizarrely gutting too). Even Reaper has a lot of niche, "non-standard" optimisation techniques. Nobody is forcing you to play non-standard Black Mage, so if you don't want to then you don't have to. Please do not spoil the one remaining job that has that level of satisfaction for those who do though.

[Ianmaru]

Other jobs did have options! It is because of feedback like this that they no longer do, BLM just happens to be one of the last holdouts. They are still clearly capable of designing jobs in such a way, such as the EW MNK rework (which they are now bizarrely gutting too). Even Reaper has a lot of niche, "non-standard" optimisation techniques. Nobody is forcing you to play non-standard Black Mage, so if you don't want to then you don't have to. Please do not spoil the one remaining job that has that level of satisfaction for those who do though.

??
its not about what i want or not want to do, its about 'the reason of the gutting is to make it fair and balanced for all the jobs in terms of depth/options'.
if other jobs did have such options and then get gutted, then why can BLM stay not gutted? thats unfair, and thats the answer you need to accept.
BLM being 'the one remaining job' is exactly the reason it is special at the moment, thus it needs to be gutted and put in line alongside all the other jobs.

[Cyth_]

??
its not about what i want or not want to do, its about 'the reason of the gutting is to make it fair and balanced for all the jobs in terms of depth/options'.
if other jobs did have such options and then get gutted, then why can BLM stay not gutted? thats unfair, and thats the answer you need to accept.
BLM being 'the one remaining job' is exactly the reason it is special at the moment, thus it needs to be gutted and put in line alongside all the other jobs.

BLM does not significantly outperform other jobs in this game (barring RDM and SMN generally being undertuned this expansion which is an entirely separate topic).

And still this stance is bizarre to me?? We can just ask them to make jobs interesting and deep again, instead of shooting down anything to the contrary and saying "well I guess that's just how it is now". Your position makes no sense.

[Ianmaru]

BLM does not significantly outperform other jobs in this game (barring RDM and SMN generally being undertuned this expansion which is an entirely separate topic).

And still this stance is bizarre to me?? We can just ask them to make jobs interesting and deep again, instead of shooting down anything to the contrary and saying "well I guess that's just how it is now". Your position makes no sense.

???
I'm not talking about 'performance' whatsoever. I said 'fair & balanced in terms of depth/options', not 'in terms of performance/dps output'
I've given a focused and straight to the point answers and yet you keep bringing things that's not exactly relevant to my point.
Maybe youre too much in denial to not be able to think straight? so you cant understand my makes perfect sense position?
or do you just want to debate? and making a poor attempt at it by bringing irrelevant points to prolong the debate?
ok I'll entertain you one last time:
now lets say, after BLM gets gutted, suddenly one of the other jobs get a change that makes it possible for them to do nonstandard play. how would you feel about it?

[Galvuu]

???
snip

I love this mindset.
"Well, since every other class than class A can only have pizza for lunch, now class A is also only allowed to get pizza, even though they preferred chicken nuggets every now and then. We just serve pizza now."
If another job suddenly gets the depth BLM has now, unless I'm really put off by the aesthetics of the class (like NIN or SAM, which I just dislike in general), I'll play it.

People really show how recently they started playing. In HW, one of the jobs with most depth and complexity was SCH. In fact, I still think HW SCH, with Cleric dancing, with the old fairy buffs (the haste, the magic defense boost and all that), with supervirus, with the xclass dots that weren't naturally aligned, with the MP-hungry Miasma II for weaving, with the old Energy Drain VS Lustrate (and I'm not even going into the % Lustrate made to be used in Cleric, since that got removed way faster) was one of the best jobs in XIV history. When all of that got slashed in SB, I moved to BLM and SMN. I progged every Ultimate and Savage fight in ShB on SMN too, I liked the second iteration with the ogcd egi assaults (the instant gcd egi assaults were ok too, tho). Then they annihilated that SMN, and all that was left was BLM.
People just assume players haven't been hoping between jobs as more and more get sacrificed to the altar of "balance", which is achieving nothing at all in terms of gameplay feel or encounter quality.

So yea, I'd change jobs for the 4th time if what you're describing happens.
(My wife had a similar trajectory, starting with DRK in HW, then WAR in SB, then PLD in ShB and now GNB)
Ofc, at this rate, the game will never have any depth of gameplay ever again. SCH, DRK, SMN, WAR, and now BLM- I'm sure there are more examples, but I didn't reach an acceptable level of mastery in those jobs. We, as a playerbase, need to defend the few jobs with depth left, otherwise, in a few years, in a XIV post complete-homogenization, no one will even remember how much this game's gameplay has lost. To this day, I still want any version of HW, SB or ShB SMN and HW SCH back. I'd really love to play those jobs again. But I guess I should just accept they're taking my last toy away, get bored in 2 months with DT and uninstall the game :>

[Cyth_]

???
I'm not talking about 'performance' whatsoever. I said 'fair & balanced in terms of depth/options', not 'in terms of performance/dps output'
I've given a focused and straight to the point answers and yet you keep bringing things that's not exactly relevant to my point.
Maybe youre too much in denial to not be able to think straight? so you cant understand my makes perfect sense position?
or do you just want to debate? and making a poor attempt at it by bringing irrelevant points to prolong the debate?
ok I'll entertain you one last time:
now lets say, after BLM gets gutted, suddenly one of the other jobs get a change that makes it possible for them to do nonstandard play. how would you feel about it?

I would feel good if more jobs got more rotational depth and flexibility actually! I would sincerely hope that BLM doesn't have to be sacrificed for this to happen, but what have I said at any point in this thread that would make you think I would be against that? I am also very unhappy with the Monk and Samurai changes that reduce depth and flexibility.

Why is it a bad thing for some jobs to have more depth and a different difficulty delta than others? SE have stated themselves that they desire this, such as when they have stated Sage is intended to be an "expert" healer, or Viper is supposed to be for experienced players (I forget their exact wording but I was there at fanfest when they revealed it!)

It's not unfair if I am playing SMN and someone else is playing a different job and they perform better because they invested in the opportunities the job has for optimisation. I chose this experience by choosing a job that does not have much room for decision-making. Having jobs to fit varying skill levels, playstyles and depths is a good thing, and it really boggles my mind how anyone can suggest otherwise.