Making jobs simpler is a mistake, let players fail.

[Raim]

You're not making a sensible argument here. You say that balance is better now and every job is viable because they changed the jobs, but when shown an example of balance being bad, you say that people should change to another job in order to clear if their job is weak? But I thought you said every job is made viable now, why do people still have to change to another job to clear?

What is your argument anyway?

Thats always been a thing in MMOs. Its okay for some classes to just be quite a lot better at certain things. If you want unique gameplay and variance in jobs in XIV they're going to have to heavily increase enrage timers.

[vetch]

I think the P8S-on-release situation is instructive here. SE wanted to set a tight enrage. They can't do that, and support all jobs and comps being viable, unless they make it so that the differences are sufficiently small.

Then they should give up their desire to have tight enrages. It's an ill-considered aim with bad knock-on effects. Having the DPS checks be so tight that W1 players are struggling against them adds a smidgeon of tension for 0.01% of the playerbase for a week while turbo-fucking job and encounter design for everyone for years.

[Supersnow845]

Thats always been a thing in MMOs. Its okay for some classes to just be quite a lot better at certain things. If you want unique gameplay and variance in jobs in XIV they're going to have to heavily increase enrage timers.

That’s not aravells point

The person she replied to has spent this entire thread saying “the current job design is good because it’s so well balanced” aravell and I presented P8 as an example of when the balance is bad that didn’t happen in SB or ShB and their answer was basically “well swap jobs” which completely contradicts the point they’ve made this entire thread

[Lyth]

I think this depends on where you think the balance discrepancy was. Did groups find the P8S checks difficult because WAR was behind other tanks by 50-100 rDPS (I know there's a long tangent on Everburn and aDPS numbers in here, but that doesn't factor into the screening doorboss), or was it because you had a Caster job that exists in an entirely different role category from the competition?

I get the impression that everyone cited P8S in the name of getting themselves buffs, but not all of these were actually balance problems. Some actually were, however.

[Absurdity]

Yeah, we already know they will be simpler.
But people are too busy admiring all the flashy effects to look into the actual substance.
Rotationally, most jobs will just be simpler. But the buttons you were already pressing are now glowy, which apparently is enough for this community.

It's the same spiel as every expansion for the last 5+ years, they release a new trailer that shows off pretty sparkles and people go "ooooh aaaaah" like their brain suddenly bluescreened, conveniently forgetting that none of the actual issues have been adressed.
But hey, big new flashy effects...for an ability that's just "press this button to make big number appear, 60 seconds cooldown".

[gansita]

You have to define what it means for you to "simplify" a job. I ask this because for everyone this means different things and in some of those cases, the simplification comes due to a technical problem that can only be solved through simplification methods like consolidating 2 buttons into 1 in order to make more room for new buttons. So the discussion really depends on what things you consider "simplification".

[helloitme]

You have to define what it means for you to "simplify" a job. I ask this because for everyone this means different things and in some of those cases, the simplification comes due to a technical problem that can only be solved through simplification methods like consolidating 2 buttons into 1 in order to make more room for new buttons. So the discussion really depends on what things you consider "simplification".

For me, simplifying is reducing the thought process and skill ceiling. At this point, they've practically removed both of those things entirely in EW, and it looks like they nay finish thenjob in DT. In STB, you had to actually learn your job if you wanted to do well. You had to know the fight to optimize around it, and there was a lot of skill expression and thought involved in how you played your job. There was also a lot of room to try to align your resources with a large amount of buffs depending on your party comp. Tanking was still interesting because we jad thoughthul tank stances. Now on EW, all every job does is press buttons when they light up, and only use resources we have to to avoid overcapping until the next 2 minute window, and it's beyond boring. So much so that i don't see any reason to raid or even play the game at all in DT after i finish making an assessment of it as i play through the initial patch. The combo consolidation is not simplification, hitting 123 instead of 111 did not add any layer of depth, challenge, or fun.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I think it's way to early to be calling that isn't it?

We know nothing of the things they changed, or the tooltips.

Everything is still subject to change. They did the same thing to MNK in Endwalker right before the launch.

Specifically on the matters of DRK...

People said "it's too early to tell before media tour".
Then "it's too early to tell before launch, changes can happen".
On launch when the predictions were true "they will listen and rework it don't worry".
As major patches go by when other jobs had full blown reworks for them "DRK clearly will get changes on X.0 expansion release, they need time".

This sequence started with the lead-up to Shadowbringers, has continued full tradition with Endwalker and based on what we got told and what we saw is very likely continuing with Dawntrail.

In all these years, the single actually significant thing they have changed was Living Dead, after not touching it for a total of 19 major patches since 3.0, or 3 full expansions and an expansion launch patch. It took immense criticism leading into 6.1 with DSR's release for them to finally adjust it.

On top of that, they probably axed Plunge, the original tank dash, for the new Shadow Step when they probably could have reworked Plunge and kept both, while WAR retains Onslaught and Primal Rend as two separate dashes.

They have yet to address the following:

• skillspeed and spellspeed not being merged for spell AOEs
• Delirium being an unimaginably boring skill since 5.0+, which from what I can tell they are going to only give some animation upgrades
• the removal of any and all skill and resource interaction like we had with Bloodweapon, Delirium, TBN, Dark Arts and Blood skills and having absolutely nothing take its place (every single ability we have is exclusively gated by either cooldown OR MP cost OR Blood cost with zero interaction)
• replacing the GCD-enhancing playstyle with spamming magical Shinten/Kyuten (hello SAM players) and non-interacting ogcds [EDIT: and by proxy killing off speed build viability entirely]
• Dark Mind being dead on arrival as soon as encounters do primarily physical damage when the opposite isn't true with Camouflage
• The complete dumbing down of recast timers being aligned with 60s, 90s (rare) and 120s when we had 30s, 40s, 45s and 80s as well to break monotony

I have seen this crashlanding-in-slow-motion go on since 5.0 after having the greatest fun with Stormblood DRK and other Stormblood job designs. Pardon my words, but I am sick and tired of player comments like your's being made over valid concerns and criticisms me and other DRK players have provided since Shadowbringers, especially after having endured 4+ years of exactly what we predicted happening.

Enough with the "they will listen, just wait, it's too early to tell".

[Oizen]

Well the real answer is they wont change anything, the game is selling like crazy right now so they're going to quadruple down on the formula that is making Square Enix money. I don't think you'll see real change until the game starts to decline in sales.

At the end of the day this is still an eastern mmo, and like every eastern mmo you get content regurgitation and not much else. They're not going to listen to your feedback.

[sindriiisgaming]

Lots of hardcore and casuals alike still play SMN despite the job being known as "braindead".
Lots of people plays WAR and find the job fine.

I join you there, I don't think it will affect anyone.

Plus, I find it funny that some casuals complain about jobs being too simple while they never tried any content that actually needs you to master your job and know how to optimize.
My point isn't that casuals intake shouldn't be taken in account, someone who claims "cooking is simple" as they only boil pasta should go beyond their comfort zone before complaining about cooking being too simple.

And how would you know what content us "casuals" have tried?