Positionals

[HikariKurosawa]

It's not that I feel attacked, moreso that I feel like you may have the other user who is questioning my posts on ignore. I was responding to both of you but didn't quote their post, so admittedly it was probably confusing. But also the "you're wrong" post is just a few posts up so I kind of assumed you'd see it since you also entered the discussion, which would require viewing all my other responses and the posts addressing me. I think post 166 ventures back into the homogeneity discussion and there's simply nothing more to say about it, as I said. But I'm not angry or attacked, no worries. And similarly to you I've never once shut down anyone augmenting the positionals. I think enhancing them would be great. I think encounter design should change as well. I just don't think it's cool to throw it back in people's faces "you're homogenizing melee" to me or anyone and betrays a lack of understanding of what homogenization even is or what positionals even do in the current state.

Care to explain how removing or making positionals exclusive to one or two melee jobs would contribute to "homogenization" of jobs in this game? Can you even explain specific examples of homogenization in this game? Like, you say that flank and rear positionals are all different because they are tied to different abilities that happen at different points in each job's rotation, yet will probably go on to say that every job is shifting to a 2 minute burst window? Guess what, all 2 minute cooldowns are extremely different in this game and it just makes sense for the burst windows to line up from a gameplay perspective. It's called teamwork.

So please I really would like to hear your valid explanation in specific detail about how jobs are being homogenized, how positionals have anything to do with that, and how limiting positionals to monk and dragoon would further homogenize melee jobs.

If anything is homogenized, it is the fact that there are positionals on all melee dps. Personally I think the homogenization of jobs in this game is completely made up and baseless, but I'd love to hear your perspective in detail because all you've done up till now is throw around buzzwords and wikipedia articles that don't even support your position.

[1313]

Let's play a drinking game! Every time a thread turns into a dumpster fire, we take a shot.

[Turtledeluxe]

Care to explain how removing or making positionals exclusive to one or two melee jobs would contribute to "homogenization" of jobs in this game? Can you even explain specific examples of homogenization in this game? Like, you say that flank and rear positionals are all different because they are tied to different abilities that happen at different points in each job's rotation, yet will probably go on to say that every job is shifting to a 2 minute burst window? Guess what, all 2 minute cooldowns are extremely different in this game and it just makes sense for the burst windows to line up from a gameplay perspective. It's called teamwork.

So please I really would like to hear your valid explanation in specific detail about how jobs are being homogenized, how positionals have anything to do with that, and how limiting positionals to monk and dragoon would further homogenize melee jobs.

If anything is homogenized, it is the fact that there are positionals on all melee dps. Personally I think the homogenization of jobs in this game is completely made up and baseless, but I'd love to hear your perspective in detail because all you've done up till now is throw around buzzwords and wikipedia articles that don't even support your position.

All of your questions have been explained and the article completely proves the point. I'm not repeating myself, as I said.

Take it up with all the other players who understood what I said just fine.

I think you are in strong denial if you think people are just making up job homogenization..and aside from that your collective posts don't encourage me that further discussion would actually go anywhere.

In fact, your posts in general give me the impression you are a Xenosys stan. And here's my hot take-- no one should listen to Xenosys ever bc his love of the game is actually his love of cheating his way to a worlds first ultimate clear. Why the dev team or anyone would listen to him about job design is nuts, imo.

[Valence]

Literally 0 of the pvp jobs are more interesting than their pve versions.

Edit: PvP jobs are interesting in that they made a bunch of tiny kits feel distinct and true to their base jobs. They are not interesting in the sense that if you stuck them in PvE, they would be fun at all. They would be super boring in fact.

Edit: Also pvp is ultra imbalanced and the only reason it isn't a problem is that such a minor portion of the playerbase engages with it. So this is a terrible sell.

Nobody is asking for pvp kits to be directly translated into pve, since as you say, they're not designed for pve in mind. The fact that they feel distinct and true to their base jobs was the whole point, and you're putting it better than I could. And perhaps that's something the devs should take note of when designing for pve.

Pvp isn't that imbalanced for what it is designed: crystalline conflict. If you're talking about FLs, nobody is going to take that comparison seriously, nothing is balanced here.

[Valence]

I don't need to disagree, the names, recast times, descriptions, etc. all demonstrate what I am saying.

I also didn't say I like positionals. I have a RPR at 90 but tbh I don't feel one way or the other about them. I don't think anyone ITT does either. I think they're parroting a streamer.

For example:

I design a set of pens that are all blue. The undertones of the blue are different, making them different shades. You come in, say they're all "basically blue", and called them the same. Except they aren't. To be homogeneous they would need to be the same exact blue.

No, you're just using bad faith to say that 220 potency is different from 200 potency.

Yes, it's mathematically true. Good grief.

I thought everybody here at least agreed that positionals could actually be made more interesting (like old trick attack etc), but I guess not? What's your position on this exactly? You'd rather keep our bland 20 potency increases on positionals?

[TheMightyMollusk]

Let's play a drinking game! Every time a thread turns into a dumpster fire, we take a shot.

No thanks, I choose life.

[HikariKurosawa]

All of your questions have been explained and the article completely proves the point. I'm not repeating myself, as I said.

Take it up with all the other players who understood what I said just fine.

I think you are in strong denial if you think people are just making up job homogenization..and aside from that your collective posts don't encourage me that further discussion would actually go anywhere.

In fact, your posts in general give me the impression you are a Xenosys stan. And here's my hot take-- no one should listen to Xenosys ever bc his love of the game is actually his love of cheating his way to a worlds first ultimate clear. Why the dev team or anyone would listen to him about job design is nuts, imo.

So you can't do it? Good to know.

I think you are strongly delusional if you actually think job homogenization exists in this game. You can't even explain how it exists. It's a buzz word you like to throw around because it justifies your unhappiness with the game. Maybe you are just jaded and incapable of seeing the game for what it really is? Who knows. You're incapable or unwilling to explain your position so it's irrelevant anyway. Maybe you should just stop posting if you are unwilling to elaborate or state your position.

[rawker]

So viper will have a more convoluted positional?

[Kathryn]

So viper will have a more convoluted positional?

Hopefully not but even if it does I'll never remember them as I play the game casually and anyone who complains about my positionals can pay for my subscription +3 retainers if they like, if not then they can keep their opinions on how to play a job to themselves.

[Reinha]

So viper will have a more convoluted positional?

I didn't notice any mention of positionals on Viper.