Positionals

[Isurith]

I don't get what parsing has to do in this discussion btw. If i want to log on a job i'll play by the rules of the job, whatever are these rules.

But that's doesn't exclude me from saying that some of these rules can be tedious and not fun.

[Asako]

Positionals were fine in the past, but once you have bosses spinning every 2s with their super sized hitboxes it just becomes annoying. Either keep big boss hitboxes and get rid of positionals or vice versa. Both just don't work together.

Bring back Tank responsibility in positioning and stop having bosses reset themselves to center facing south.

[Turtledeluxe]

Positionals were fine in the past, but once you have bosses spinning every 2s with their super sized hitboxes it just becomes annoying. Either keep big boss hitboxes and get rid of positionals or vice versa. Both just don't work together.

Bring back Tank responsibility in positioning and stop having bosses reset themselves to center facing south.

The original post doesn't really address this but I think it has become central to the thread. Are positionals a problem or is it encounter design? This is a very important consideration* before suggesting deleting something from the game based on very very end game content.

[Asako]

One thing that might be nice about removing positionals is that perhaps you'd see the melee spread out a bit more instead of being stacked on top of each other at the rear-flank boundary. Looks kinda silly when it happens. I'd still prefer to keep them, though.

I'd prefer they stay, but if they do get removed I hope we get more interactive bosses like P2.

[CelestiCer]

I'd prefer they stay, but if they do get removed I hope we get more interactive bosses like P2.

P2S is a watered down ( no pun intended ) wall boss in disguise to me. The supposedly unique Arena design players praise? did not make it any more enjoyable besides it having a gigantic hitbox and despite it having a cool looking Limit Cut, or at least for me from my Samurai's PoV cause. I care a lot more about how my Job feels during a fight. Like are my Iaijutsu cast times really that tight? but in P2S, I stand still to long for mechanics to resolve, nothing feels tight at all its very forgiving which boils down to it becoming a striking dummy for a lot of the fight until we roleplay Bumper-Cars which isn't interactive - despite its unique arena design which looked great.

That doesn't mean Fights without Positionals or Wall-Bosses can't be great... even though I coincidentally find P7S / P8S p2 / P12S p2 the least fun yet ironically P10S a wall boss a lot of Fun. I also don't see how giving up Positionals promises us more interactive bosses or more simplifications as Endwalker Savage has proven us pretty differently. I find ShB Savage more interactive then EW like the comparison between E11S and it's discount version P11S

[AmiableApkallu]

Are positionals a problem or is it encounter design?

Yes.

EW encounter design has the issue where melee can punch and stab and hack at the boss while standing out in Narnia.

Positionals as a mechanic has the issue that it's mechanic devoid of impact and feel. Pugilist/Monk is an easy example here. If you're running through Duty Finder content, positionals are irrelevant. Failing every single one has no meaningful impact on an encounter or your rotation (whatever passes for such in Duty Finder). Worse, even if you're trying to do the positionals correctly, they're so infrequent in the rotation that they don't convey the feel of a fleet-footed individual dancing around their opponent.

The game, as a whole, needs to commit to something, instead of the current middle ground of apathy.

[HikariKurosawa]

"Removing positionals would alienate a portion of the melee dps playerbase" lool. You'd get over it in a day or less unless you wanted to complain. Then it's a good thing, because you have something to complain about and that's what you want to do.

If they remove positionals they can redesign the ugly target circle that is designed around positional indication on top of removing true north. Those two reasons alone justify it entirely. It would also make encounter design much more streamlined and enable them to put the "difficulty" of positionals in more meaningful areas of gameplay.

Positionals hold the game back largely and this is very understated in the community.

Removing positionals doesn't make melee spam attackers either. Rotations would still be as complex and rigid as they are currently. You could simply focus more on execution of the rotation itself and everyone would be playing at a higher level. Melee is melee, you hit the enemy with a melee weapon at melee range. Ranged is ranged, you're either a caster or using a ranged weapon to attack the target from range. There is no homogenization.

[Sunhwapark]

If you want a melee without positionals, play as a tank.

[Sjol]

I'm saying that this mechanic exists in melee because it just makes sense. No, not everything in the game is based on realism, but thereorerically someone attacking another person or thing at melee range does have to consider their positioning to some degree. So it just feels natural as an idea. That's probably why it's inherent to the class.

I would agree if we were mostly fighting same-sized humans, but I'm the game as is, I'm several feet away and attacking something's leg or the air below something. Who even knows where the week point is on a pudding.

Suggesting that we make it like rphys btw, is homogeny at work. So far positionals are consistent because (with the very tiny exception of early NIN) they're just inherent to the role. It is intentional. Subtracting that away might differentiate it from some melee, but then it makes them functionally like other jobs in the game. Hence, homogeny.

I'm not suggesting making it like rphys, that would imply getting rid of the melee requirement. I'm saying that they've already find ways to account for positionals being required for some jobs and not others - a direct response to you starting that they would have to do so. I'm agreeing with you that they would, but also saying that they have in the past.

I also don't generally get hung up on role based distinctions beyond the Trinity. Within those, I care about individual class identity.

NIN, it's mudras
MNK, stands and solar/lunar
RPR, nothing
DRG, jumps and needs more of them
SAM, coins and could use something else