Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Sqwall]

Frankly you're the one that's failing to understand.

WAR is OVERTUNED. Shake it Off DOES NOT NEED ITS HEALING. It can be removed.

Nascent Flash/Holmgang is its own issue that ya'll can debate from here until kingdom come. I don't care about either. I didn't bring up either.

Bloodwhetting, as you yourself mentioned IS OVERTUNED IN DUNGEONS AND CAN BE FIXED WITHOUT BOTHERING SAVAGE.

So I ask ONCE AGAIN:

What the hells is your issue about nerfing it if it isn't going to affect savage? If you're ok with WAR having a drop off heal per target, LIKE I MENTIONED IN MY POST or any other change that doesn't bother the healing in a single target sense, WHY are you arguing so much against something that it needs? Because dungeons don't matter to you? If it's not going to affect you in savage what so ever, then BW getting nerfed like that shouldn't be your problem now is it?

Also, healers can keep up. We LITERALLY don't need any other role to have healing. You could remove it all come DT and any good healer will be perfectly fine.

Also this:

Because people want to keep changing WAR...for what? Make the bloodwhetting change...idk. Just don't change the single target value. Leave it alone. It's not going to drastically impact dungeons in ANY way shape or form....healers will still heal a warrior in a dungeon like all the other tanks.

But with that....leave everything else alone. But nobody can...."WAR NEEDS EVERYTHING CHANGED!!!!"

Shake needs a nerf and remove the healing and make it 8% shield....what's next? Vengeance...remove the reflect damage? What's next....Thrill is now just a 20% eHP bump for 10 sec with no increased healing....? What's next Equilibrium is just a flat heal with no HoT? While we are at it just remove guaranteed direct hit's on burst...because it's damage is to much. Holmgang timer changed to 360 sec so it's just like all the other tanks. Hell change all the invulns to 420 sec then so it matches PLD...because invulns are CHEESE!

Sheesh. This is what this forum wants.

Just gut it already then if that will make everyone happy. Guess i'll stick with PLD....until everyone starts to see that it's "overtuned" also and we start this cycle all over again.

[AmiableApkallu]

I miss danger in dungeons and pulling to much would rekt any tank. Healers needed to actually sweat and heal. DPS needed to DPS or the tank would die...or healer would oom whichever came first

Because people want to keep changing WAR...for what?

To make the healer "actually sweat and heal"? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Tanks are not healers. As a matter of principle, the amount of HP they can restore, either to themselves or to the party as a whole, at max level, is simply too much. DRK is the one exception.

(I'll ignore party-wide mitigations here, except to say that I still don't understand why every tank has Reprisal @ 60s while WHM is stuck with Temperance @ 120s.)

[Zairava]

Because people want to keep changing WAR...for what? Make the bloodwhetting change...idk. Just don't change the single target value. Leave it alone. It's not going to drastically impact dungeons in ANY way shape or form....healers will still heal a warrior in a dungeon like all the other tanks.

But with that....leave everything else alone. But nobody can...."WAR NEEDS EVERYTHING CHANGED!!!!"

Shake needs a nerf and remove the healing and make it 8% shield....what's next? Vengeance...remove the reflect damage? What's next....Thrill is now just a 20% eHP bump for 10 sec with no increased healing....? What's next Equilibrium is just a flat heal with no HoT? While we are at it just remove guaranteed direct hit's on burst...because it's damage is to much. Holmgang timer changed to 360 sec so it's just like all the other tanks. Hell change all the invulns to 420 sec then so it matches PLD...because invulns are CHEESE!

Sheesh. This is what this forum wants.

Just gut it already then if that will make everyone happy. Guess i'll stick with PLD....until everyone starts to see that it's "overtuned" also and we start this cycle all over again.

Congratulations because the entire time we've been going in circles none of us have been suggesting to make bloodwhetting worse in single target, which you've been welcomely ignoring.

Warrior could still perform fine on its own before Thrill got convalescence baked in (which means it now has two CD's for the price of one, but you don't care about that) and Shake it Off got healing and regen added. Their response to more aoe bleeds was to give Shake it Off healing and regen, do you understand how backwards that sounds? The HEALER SHOULD BE THE ONE COVERING IT.

And we ALSO already see PLD as overtuned, because, and we have already said this multiple times, the tanks in general are overtuned bar maybe Dark Knight (TBN makes it stronger the more the DRK is geared). You could take the healing off the req combo and off of Divine Veil and it would be fine.

For the quintillionth time, the changes would make the healers, by your own admission "actually sweat and heal". You would also be taking more damage without making the damage intake so high the healers literally cannot handle it when you aren't in your BW window.

[Aravell]

Their response to more aoe bleeds was to give Shake it Off healing and regen, do you understand how backwards that sounds?. the HEALER SHOULD BE THE ONE COVERING IT

This has always been funny to me. They say they're increasing healing requirements so healers have to heal more, but wait, WAR also heals more now.

What next? Add Esuna requirements into savage fights and then add a cleanse effect to Nascent Flash and Shake it Off?

[Supersnow845]

I’ll at least say that I’ve been an advocate for the fact that WAR’s healing in savage is still disgustingly overtuned it’s just not as egregious as in AOE but I’m certainly the only one who is bringing up that point recently

[Aravell]

I’ll at least say that I’ve been an advocate for the fact that WAR’s healing in savage is still disgustingly overtuned it’s just not as egregious as in AOE but I’m certainly the only one who is bringing up that point recently

WAR has honestly had too much healing in savage since ShB when they got Nascent Flash, the only difference is that it was percentage based back then so it required the WAR to be good at their job to heal a lot, but it did already trivialise double tankbusters at the time (very few people realised how strong cross-mitigating with Intervention and Nascent Flash was back then).

It's just become a more noticeable problem in EW because they got a new massive party heal from Shake it Off buffs and Nascent Flash was changed to be a flat 400 cure potency.

[Oizen]

I honestly think WAR would be more fun if its life steal mechanic wasn't a flat number but more based on what you poor into it. I don't like how few decisions WAR has to make about, basically anything.

BW/NF should basically be spammed on CD without a thought unless theres an upcoming tank buster, its so comically free compared to TBN's resource, or HoC actually requiring damage to proc, sure it'll proc when that 20s CD is up but I've found that to be a very inefficient way to use it.

Ironically despite its reputation I honestly think WAR would make for an insanely powerful OT, more so than its MT abilities due to NF being so powerful and free.

[Supersnow845]

I honestly think WAR would be more fun if its life steal mechanic wasn't a flat number but more based on what you poor into it. I don't like how few decisions WAR has to make about, basically anything.

BW/NF should basically be spammed on CD without a thought unless theres an upcoming tank buster, its so comically free compared to TBN's resource, or HoC actually requiring damage to proc, sure it'll proc when that 20s CD is up but I've found that to be a very inefficient way to use it.

Ironically despite its reputation I honestly think WAR would make for an insanely powerful OT, more so than its MT abilities due to NF being so powerful and free.

So basically exactly how it worked prior to bloodwhetting

If you pressed nascent flash in ShB then just did 1-2-3 you got functionally nothing out of it

[Derio]

I dont think they are going to touch WAR. They are more likely to give DRK a small heal and call the tanks balanced. The problem is tanks received alot of sustain based on healers. Healers didnt want to spend a GCD on a heal to get the tank up so they said they will make it easier and give tanks more healing.

Ultimately it will come down how they do the healers this expansion to determine what they do for tank self sustain.

[Aravell]

Healers didnt want to spend a GCD on a heal to get the tank up so they said they will make it easier and give tanks more healing.

And they just happily based balancing around the people who say "Hey, I don't want to do the main role that I signed up for"?