Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Sqwall]

This is the most ironic nonsense coming from the same people who complained about Warrior dps until they caved and gave you the damage.

I want you to explain just what weakness Warrior has right now. Like, this isn't a small margin.

-You have the best invuln
-You have, by far, the most sustainability
-You have shields and by far the most potent raid utility of the tanks

It used to be you had all this in exchange for having lower dps, but that drawback is here no longer. Paladin at least has to sacrifice GCD's to cast clemency. So tell me. What weakness do you have?

Warrior downsides:
- invuln REQUIRES a target be in range (I understand most will just macro to use on self, but this is inefficient when timing matters)

- invuln offers ZERO damage mitigation, you still take full brunt of damage...you just can't fall below 1. If not timed properly you can run the risk of being low HP if your healers are busy. P12s Lazy Lazers and P8s Shared Autos comes to mind as progging that was rough on the healers as a WAR...I died a LOT when my healers "think" I can bene myself.

- must be in range of target to attack for bloodwhetting to work correctly otherwise zero heals...only mitigation. As MT I have had to peel off the boss for mechs. The last tier was really much of an issue as the target circle is gigundo now, but in previous tiers I lost out on a lot of healing from bloodwhetting due to mechs>dps.

- zero range capabilities save tomahawk (compared to Holy Spirit which is considerably stronger....better nerf Holy Spirit)

-Few DAMAGE mitigation (3) buttons to choose from:

• Vengeance : 30%
• Bloodwhetting: 20% with 10% drop off. With 400 potency heal equivalent barrier. (cure 1 level value)
• Shake It Off: 15% absorb based on WAR MAX HP. (Thrill, bloodwhetting, vengeance, buffs this by 2% each when each respective mitigation is present...lost after using shake it off)....so a WAR will SACRIFICE it's personal mits...to buff the party.
  -Equal is a self heal...no mit
  -Thrill is a minor heal with increase MAX HP...no mit
  -Nascent is a heal only to WAR...no mit

compared to PLD (6):

• Sentinel: 30% mit
• Hallowed Ground: 100% damage mit
• Bulwark: 20% damage mit (block rate is 100% but 20% block mit)
• Divine Veil: Barrier 10% of MAX HP of PLD granted to party.
• Passage of Arms: 100% block rate to PLD 20%, lowers incoming damage to party by 15%
• Holy Sheltron: 30% damage mitigation then falls to 15%

[Zairava]

snip

1) Holmgang is the shortest cooldown invuln and you have MORE than enough tools in your kit to heal yourself alongside mitigation to reduce damage after. Which, by the way, bloodwhetting provides a shield, mit, AND healing. Also, healers failing to heal you IS NOT A WARRIOR ISSUE, IT'S THE HEALER'S FAULT.

1a) Holmgang hasn't required a target since probably Stormblood (It might have at the start of Shadowbringers but I honestly don't remember.)

2) You're listing Bloodwhetting of all abilities as a downside, lmao. You have Equilibrium if need the healing that terribly, which not only heals you but ALSO gives you a HoT.

3) This might be news to you, but DRK and GNB also only have their one ranged attack too. Are you gonna ask for a Holy Spirit equivalent next? I've been a dedicated DRK main since Stormblood launch, and in my 7 years playing I've never complained about Holy Spirit, but nice try at a "gotcha"

4) with the amount of sustain you have you ABSOLUTELY do not need more mitigation. Vengeance+BW is plenty reliable if you need to kitchen sink. Or Holmgang if the TB calls for it)

4a) Hallowed Ground is PLD's invuln, you aren't using that as a rotational defensive CD in high end content, you're using it in specific places.

4b) you shouldn't be using SiO, Divine Veil, or Passage of Arms for personal mitigation anyway

4c) PLD got Bulwark back because it actually was struggling to stay alive due to bleeds (which is why [Holy] Sheltron no longer provides blocks and instead got flat mitigation)

[Sqwall]

1)
4) with the amount of sustain you have you ABSOLUTELY do not need more mitigation. You actually have more tools (and more potent at that) than DRK has, and DRK gets by just fine.

There it is. Bingo.

Like I have been saying all along....WAR has everything is needs.

[Kabooa]

Anyone else getting that pigeon and chessboard feeling here?

I've been having it for a while.

[Zairava]

There it is. Bingo.

uhhh, what? I don't think you quoted me properly lol

edit: ah. I see now.

Yeah, to continue Reinhardt's point. You do realize that shields are effective HP (eHP) right? Which means Thrill of Battle is providing you 20% bonus HP (eHP) for a duration, and not only that, it provides you 20% bonus received healing. TBN is a 7s duration max which is never actually supposed to reach the end of it's duration bar the opener. AND it costs MP (an actual cost? Blasphemy!)

You have shields (amongst another eHP ability via Thrill), this minus all the healing you can just do to yourself, and you want to complain that mitigation is a downside? Give me a break.

Warrior has far more than what it actually needs to survive. You're the type to unironically sit there and complain that when the healer fails you when you play properly that it's somehow a problem with the job. You're one the worst types. You'll moan so long as you aren't totally self-sufficient. The trinity should actually be relevant, and Warrior laughs at the concept.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Kind reminder that when TBN is considered shield-based mitigation (different from %-based) and we herald that stuff as great when paired with standard mit...

Thrill of Battle is a 20% TBN that can be rehealed.

It's a bit rich to hear a WAR complain about inferior mitigation. Effective HP is a concept.

[Sqwall]

Anyone else getting that pigeon and chessboard feeling here?

I've been having it for a while.

LOL....oh no my feelings....

[ASkellington]

Because I don't see bloodwhetting in a dungeon environment as a gauge of the ENTIRE game. I have mentioned before "yes it is broken in dungeons" "It would do well to have a drop off heal per target". I don't see this as a nerf as it DOESN'T AFFECT SAVAGE.

I feel that you are confusing the fact that I don't give two shits about dungeon content...I don't see dungeons as a gauge for how a job is SUPPOSED to operate at high level. Where it matters.

Can a WAR solo a dungeon boss....yes. I have also done this on PLD. And GNB.....and DRK. Hell I have done this on MNK. ....you want to know how? BECAUSE IT'S A DUNGEON BOSS!

From what I gather from your comments is that you want 100% of the game balanced at ALL times....no exceptions. And any outliers should be ground into the dirt. Good luck with that. And we wonder why we have homogenization in the game....it's because people want EVERYTHING to balanced to a razor thin margin....and they bitch and moan when it's .0003% off from the lowest and highest in the tank category.

How hard is that to understand?

Frankly you're the one that's failing to understand.

WAR is OVERTUNED. Shake it Off DOES NOT NEED ITS HEALING. It can be removed.

Nascent Flash/Holmgang is its own issue that ya'll can debate from here until kingdom come. I don't care about either. I didn't bring up either.

Bloodwhetting, as you yourself mentioned IS OVERTUNED IN DUNGEONS AND CAN BE FIXED WITHOUT BOTHERING SAVAGE.

So I ask ONCE AGAIN:

What the hells is your issue about nerfing it if it isn't going to affect savage? If you're ok with WAR having a drop off heal per target, LIKE I MENTIONED IN MY POST or any other change that doesn't bother the healing in a single target sense, WHY are you arguing so much against something that it needs? Because dungeons don't matter to you? If it's not going to affect you in savage what so ever, then BW getting nerfed like that shouldn't be your problem now is it?

Also, healers can keep up. We LITERALLY don't need any other role to have healing. You could remove it all come DT and any good healer will be perfectly fine.

Also this:

you can gauge for and make balance changes to both normal/dungeon and high-end content at the same time without making either functionally useless.

[Emitans]

Warrior downsides:
- invuln REQUIRES a target be in range (I understand most will just macro to use on self, but this is inefficient when timing matters)

Extremely telling that your first downside is followed by parenthesis stating that you can completely sidestep the downside entirely. "Having to take 10 seconds to write a macro" is not a downside.

[Sqwall]

Extremely telling that your first downside is followed by parenthesis stating that you can completely sidestep the downside entirely. "Having to take 10 seconds to write a macro" is not a downside.

The downside is the fact that people would just say...write a macro for it. That's not ideal. Macros work off of server tick...using a macro for an invuln isn't efficient as it may cause delay when you need it most.

It's not a sidestep...it's a yes I thought of that to.