Reddit vs. the Forums in the Graphics War of '24

[Sebazy]

Any issues I have with the benchmark graphics will be swiftly solved via reshade etc.

It's not perfect by any means but it's a net win in my eyes.

[Somnolence]

If only there were people whose job is to gather data, discern what's meaningful and present it to the devs...

Yeah they are called Community Managers and seem to be completely MIA for FFXIV

[Supersnow845]

Or if this data is being collected and they have defined reasons for what they do why do they refuse to tell us

Take healer changes post ShB, if they had the data to say that the change was unequivocally better and it helped the healer queues immensely why don’t they tell us that and laud it as a success (like they do with the ultra streamlined dungeon design that people regularly complain about) rather than dodging the question and going “go play ultimate” to us

Same as l it really any other issue relating to the job system

[Arkdra]

I mean let’s not pretend like the reverse isn’t true, the average forum user who is fine with a change or likes the current state of something basically always resorts to the old fallacy of “you have opinion A I have counter opinion B unless you can show me overwhelming evidence of A we should assume B is right by default despite me showing no evidence of B”

Functionally anytime someone makes an argument someone will hit them with “well this is just the forum people who are happy aren’t coming to the forum to complain”, it’s not like square ever releases data on whether something is popular or not

Let’s not pretend like “i made an argument everyone has to agree with me” is the only form of problematic argument



Literally perfect example in the next comment, “they probably are popular, let’s just assume they are popular” and not “hey they might not actually listen to feedback as much as we think they do

My dude, just about everything they do is in response to feedback. 2 minute meta? Feedback. Tank and healer remake in shb? Feedback. Everything they've done post launch with housing is feedback. Glamour plates? Feedback. They cut the exploratory mission in EW because of feedback and they are bringing it back in DT because of the counter feedback. They brought back a deep dungeon because of feedback but that got morbin timed. Criterion is a direct response to the endless asks for smaller group hard content. Dedicated face slot and dye channels? Feedback. It was interesting when the response to kaiten's removal wasn't strong enough to get them to reverse course on that but it did get them to not go forward with some other changes they had planned.

[Somnolence]

Or if this data is being collected

There is no way to collect opinions objectively. Every single game that is in beta where devs want feedback provides clear and official means to submit it. Usually this is even done in-game.

If they wanted feedback for graphical changes all they had to do to add something to the benchmark with "Did you like the changes? If yes/no what did you like about them".

[Supersnow845]

My dude, just about everything they do is in response to feedback. 2 minute meta? Feedback. Tank and healer remake in shb? Feedback. Everything they've done post launch with housing is feedback. Glamour plates? Feedback. They cut the exploratory mission in EW because of feedback and they are bringing it back in DT because of the counter feedback. They brought back a deep dungeon because of feedback but that got morbin timed. Criterion is a direct response to the endless asks for smaller group hard content. Dedicated face slot and dye channels? Feedback. It was interesting when the response to kaiten's removal wasn't strong enough to get them to reverse course on that but it did get them to not go forward with some other changes they had planned.

Housings biggest feedback from day 1 was “make it instanced” they have literally ignored the most common feedback about housing since day 1 and dance around it because they themselves have said they like the neighbourhood feeling, when was the last time someone praised the neighbourhood feeling of the houses

Same as tanks and healers, they had the same feedback in SB, “I don’t like losing damage to perform my core function and relying excessively on the party to help me achieve the core function. In response they nuked agro out of the tanks and designed healers like they are playing a different game and satisfaction crashed on those jobs going into ShB, yet they did not reverse course at all

At best they overcorrect in response to poorly constructed feedback then refuse to backtrack on the over correction at worst they just ignore feedback and implement their vision anyway. You also said “feedback to Kaiten wasn’t strong enough to reverse course. Was there a single shred of positive feedback on the Kaiten changes”, if there was why didn’t they mention it, all they said was “give it a try you might love it anyway”

[CNitsah]

Square enix needs to come out and admit where they actually pull feedback from because it doesn’t seem to be anywhere. Reddit and twitter get outright ignored while the white knights tell people to come to the forums, people come to the forums and get radio silence while we continue to spin round the same 5 topics they refuse to acknowledge

Then people say go to the JP forums and then they seem to ignore that as well, the JP forums didn’t like Kaiten or the healer reworks or the simplicity of modern SMN, they got ignored as well


At this point just tell us to put up and shut up if they won’t take feedback from us anywhere, even their own channels

They've said several time they use the like system of the forum to see what are agreed on problems. Problem is, in the english forum, nobody use the like system, and people prefer to create their own thread to talk about the exact same thing. A popular post will often stay in the 60-80 likes range. That's why this thread getting to the 200 mark in a couple of days despite the number of thread is pretty telling on how big the problem is. But anyway, who will consider changes for 60 people. Also, there are things like ingame metrics we don't have access to, or only limited version like FFXIVcensus or luckybancho data. Some people complain about the new summoner, that it's too easy (I can understand that), but right now, it's the most played class. Of course they're not gonna change it, because some raiders/hardcore players want it to be more difficult.

And more often than not, people liked post are just someone getting roasted. SE don't take in account how players give their feedback, and player don't take in account how SE thought the system.

[Banriikku]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people coming here to voice their criticisms or concerns as an attempt to change the direction of the game. The problem arises when people decide it requires no organization to it, to fill up the board, and act like everyone in the world agrees with them.

Hmm, yes i agree but thats on SE. I thought mods and the like sort that stuff out and make sure this forum works but i only saw a mod once or twice doing things here. So thats on them.

[CuteBucket]

The reason r/ffxiv is having such a different reaction is because that place is a toxic positivity hugbox where anyone saying they take issue with or dislike anything about the game is downvoted into oblivion. They are the most parasocial to Yoshi-P and Square Enix XIV community on the internet. I've had better, more nuanced discussions on r/shitpostXIV and the bar is on the floor there. Not to mention that a Reddit thread isn't a great place to post a bunch of comparison pictures. Most of the people with issues, like me, have very specific parts of the face we can point to and say "look at this, it looks worse now." Reddit just isn't a good place structurally for me to post about the topic.

[Supersnow845]

They've said several time they use the like system of the forum to see what are agreed on problems. Problem is, in the english forum, nobody use the like system, and people prefer to create their own thread to talk about the exact same thing. A popular post will often stay in the 60-80 likes range. That's why this thread getting to the 200 mark in a couple of days despite the number of thread is pretty telling on how big the problem is. But anyway, who will consider changes for 60 people. Also, there are things like ingame metrics we don't have access to, or only limited version like FFXIVcensus or luckybancho data. Some people complain about the new summoner, that it's too easy (I can understand that), but right now, it's the most played class. Of course they're not gonna change it, because some raiders/hardcore players want it to be more difficult.

And more often than not, people liked post are just someone getting roasted. SE don't take in account how players give their feedback, and player don't take in account how SE thought the system.

This circles back to my earlier point, if they have a specific criteria or arrangement of the forums they desire before they take feedback from it then
1) they need to make it clearer what they want
2) the mods need to actually do something about condensing the threads to give the desired result like they do on the JP forums

99.9% of people here probably don’t know that square wants them to go upvote another post 10295010601052050 pages ago in a megathread if they want a change over making a post of their own trying to get attention

They basically lead us on a wild goose chase around the forums then incorporate less than none of our feedback because we don’t meet that standard