After 1 (arguably 2) expansions what is square trying to achieve with WAR (and PLD)?

[Punt0Mancer]

HOT TAKE HERE:
Tanks should not have heals except 1 on a long CD (yes i dislike WAR design). You are tanking. Mid and shields is our job not outheal a healer.
W2W should not be the norm and require skill. You are a casual and not skilled enough = NO W2W. I think W2W is a bane of this game.

Stop giving "win buttons". Easy to learn, hard to master. A full xpac with nothing to learn and be bored out our minds is enough. The skill ceiling we have now is how much boredom can i bear before I fall asleep.

So you want the tanks become more like DRK then?

[Supersnow845]

So you want the tanks become more like DRK then?

Yes, DRK’s sustain is perfectly fine

We don’t need 3 tanks where one gets an excog every 25 seconds and 2 stacks of regen and that’s the weakest of the three

[TheOperator3712]

Why do we even talk about temp HP ruining white hole mechanics when white hole has basically been MIA from the game for nearly half its cumulative lifespan

The last fight with a focus on white hole that isn’t just a “fail a mechanic and get a white hole doom” is as kefka, kefka was 7 tiers ago

Crit healing has always been a bigger bane on white hole than temp HP especially since these days there is almost no distinction between single target and AOE healing because of how free it is

We just had a doom mechanic in 5.3, and possibly more since then I haven't touched EW High-End content so I don't know. Boss nukes everyone to 1 HP and the healers have to heal everyone to full. Sure the tank shouldn't cast a theoretical SIO that buffs everyone's HP for that mech, but I don't trust casual pug tanks not to do it in Duty Roulette.

As for why tank healing is so out of whack, I could only hazard a guess. What I would imagine is that they have internal data that shows that failing casual content is a significant driver of sub cancels. Throwing some extra healing at tanks is a way to add a bit of a failsafe to that. If the tank is good and the healer is bad, they can muddle through. If the tank is mid and the healer is mid, the extra tank healing probably helps. If the tank is good and the healer is good, the healer dies of boredom but that healer probably ditches healing instead of cancelling. Or maybe ditches dungeon queues.

Which is bad, but is a less bad outcome than a cancelled sub. This also assumes that the bored healers actually quit, or even exist as a significant plurality. For all we know, their internal data shows that the shb healer changes have led to a positive uptick in the percentage of the games population playing healers, which could be why complaints have fallen on deaf-ish ears.

I think this is sadly the case for both tanks and healers. As bad as ShB and EW were, it was probably only wins on the data side of things.

[rawker]

I dont mind removing some healing from PLD.. just leave Clemency the way it is.

[Arkdra]

What’s weird (note I don’t actually want this I’m just making an observation) is that there isn’t really any sort of reciprocation, there is no mechanism for a good healer to compensate for a bad tank, they instead hush also buff tanks survivability to make that not an issue

So a bad healer is compensated for by buffing tank sustain and a bad tank is compensated for by………..also buffing tanks so that no matter how bad you are you can’t die

Healers lose on both fronts and get no power fantasy out of it like tanks do

I mean, the mechanism for a good healer to compensate for a bad tank is all the healing cd's they have that they like to complain about not having to use

[Supersnow845]

I mean, the mechanism for a good healer to compensate for a bad tank is all the healing cd's they have that they like to complain about not having to use

Which actually requires some measure of skill, what skill is there in pressing bloodwhetting every 25 seconds

[GoatOfWar]

I dont mind removing some healing from PLD.. just leave Clemency the way it is.

GCD healing is already undesirable, i don't think GCD healing is a problem.
Warrior just gets to heal everyone on 2 OGCD's and still has some to spare for itself.

[Banriikku]

WAR sucks at the moment.This is my opinion.
Is it the best at the moment regarding sustain, complexity vs dps aka what do i need to do to do pain to boss/mobs, mitigation.
Yes but at what cost?
Bloodwhetting, inner release on cd - if something is alive and you need hp hit eq if only you and if group needs healing shake it of...wait for button and smash it, i bet you can make WAR full macro and play savage with it. Writing this alone hurts but this is WAR at the moment.
And full stop with Xenos, yes bald beard is funny but his takes are BS most of the time and made to rattle on the ape-cage he calls "twitch chat".

Who ever thinks this is ok, needs maybe a couple of good games or a friend because this is nonesense on all levels.

DPS too much for rotation (hit buttons on cd = WIN), mit is the same as other tanks with no downs side, sustain is ... not sustain, when you play WAR you have a little WHM tied on youre axe because its not far off with the healing potency.
Take it or leave it but i think WAR(the tank i play, if any. the rest idk ask peep who play them, i hear drk is als not so hot, gnb ,my friend said on the other hand is good?) needs a rework.

[Supersnow845]

An analogy I heard recently to try to get tank mains who think WAR (and arguably PLD) are remotely balanced was asking if you’d be happy in casual content if the enemies never grew resistant to holy’s stun or if kardia healed per hit per enemy

Like yes there is still a fail state arguably but it’s hilariously overpowered to the point of diminishing another’s role

[GoatOfWar]

So you want the tanks become more like DRK then?

Doesn't have to be a 1 to 1.
But something does need to change.
The alternative is just more annoying mechanics and a copy/paste of them that will circumvent the ridiculous levels of sustain we've reached. (Hello every Eureka Orthos mechanic being a oneshot)
At BARE minimum, they should remove overtime from shake it and the HoT from Equilibrium so that DoT's can hurt a Warrior again.
AoE BW straight up ruins casual content too, so they should just make it single target.