We need to compromise as a player base

[Evergrey]

Then I'm not quite sure why you thought your input was needed. I understand that you don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of folks who play this face immediately noticed the difference and objected to it.

But what about people who might like the changes?
Some dislike the update for a certain face while others are happy with the same face.
Who should SE listen to?
Which side is more "right" than the other?

I understand that change is difficult. More so for some than others.
Especially when it comes to something that's been part of oneself for a long time.

I don't side with either side on this topic.
I just understand that everyone's effected by this, some negative while others positive.
I'm just happy that I'm not the one who has to sit there and make a decision that'll benifit one side while damning the other.

Edit:
There are ofc things that I don't see much reason to change to begin with either.
But I am not working in this type of field so I'm sure there are reasons as to why some changes were made.
If it was due to technical reasons or the developers vision, I can't tell.
But there are underlying reasons nontheless.

[Nebty]

But what about people who might like the changes?
Some dislike the update for a certain face while others are happy with the same face.
Who should SE listen to?
Which side is more "right" than the other?

I understand that change is difficult. More so for some than others.
Especially when it comes to something that's been part of oneself for a long time.

I don't side with either side on this topic.
I just understand that everyone's effected by this, some negative while others positive.
I'm just happy that I'm not the one who has to sit there and make a decision that'll benifit one side while damning the other.

The lip/mouth changes are affecting more than just face 2 au ra. It's affecting a whole lot of people and seems tied to the changes they've made with facial rigging. Those changes also resulted in stuff like this:



Show me the person who wants this to stay the same. If you revert the elezen mouths then it only makes sense to fix the au ra duckfaces too.

[Evergrey]

The lip/mouth changes are affecting more than just face 2 au ra. It's affecting a whole lot of people and seems tied to the changes they've made with facial rigging. Those changes also resulted in stuff like this:



Show me the person who wants this to stay the same. If you revert the elezen mouths then it only makes sense to fix the au ra duckfaces too.

I understand that this is important to you, as it is to many others.
But I am not saying that Every change is a good one.
And I specifically said "certain face" and not "all faces" for a reason.
But it wouldn't surprise me if there might be a individual out there who might like.
Everyone's different and I won't shut out the possibility that there might be those who either like/dislike anything.

[Nebty]

I understand that this is important to you, as it is to many others.
But I am not saying that Every change is a good one.
And I specifically said "certain face" and not "all faces" for a reason.
But it wouldn't surprise me if there might be a individual out there who might like.
Everyone's different and I won't shut out the possibility that there might be those who either like/dislike anything.

Sure. There are some changes I like a lot (I think they did a good job with the limbal rings). But again, I'm trying to draw attention to and give feedback on the difference that I think is noticeably an issue - i.e. the mouths.

Ultimately, I think we agree that some of the changes have been for the worse and should be reexamined by the team before release, and I am hopeful they will do so.

[Evergrey]

Sure. There are some changes I like a lot (I think they did a good job with the limbal rings). But again, I'm trying to draw attention to and give feedback on the difference that I think is noticeably an issue - i.e. the mouths.

Ultimately, I think we agree that some of the changes have been for the worse and should be reexamined by the team before release, and I am hopeful they will do so.

I'm sure that with the huge backlash from all regions that they'll have some serious internal discussions as to how to go forward with this.

[Fuyume]

But what about people who might like the changes?
Some dislike the update for a certain face while others are happy with the same face.
Who should SE listen to?
Which side is more "right" than the other?

I understand that change is difficult. More so for some than others.
Especially when it comes to something that's been part of oneself for a long time.

I don't side with either side on this topic.
I just understand that everyone's effected by this, some negative while others positive.
I'm just happy that I'm not the one who has to sit there and make a decision that'll benifit one side while damning the other.

Edit:
There are ofc things that I don't see much reason to change to begin with either.
But I am not working in this type of field so I'm sure there are reasons as to why some changes were made.
If it was due to technical reasons or the developers vision, I can't tell.
But there are underlying reasons nontheless.

I just don't understand why they thought changing a face's shape, in some cases quite drastically, would be well received. Those of us who chose that face did so for a reason. For an example, for myself, if I wanted dimples and round cheeks and a pouty mouth, I would've just made a face 1 au ra, why'd they have to hit face 4 with the cutification beam? I've always had a problem with how much more soft and delicate fem au ra look versus how aggressive and strong male au ra look, and "beautifying" the only face that didn't look like a perfect doll just made it worse.

[Evergrey]

I just don't understand why they thought changing a face's shape, in some cases quite drastically, would be well received. Those of us who chose that face did so for a reason. For an example, for myself, if I wanted dimples and round cheeks and a pouty mouth, I would've just made a face 1 au ra, why'd they have to hit face 4 with the cutification beam? I've always had a problem with how much more soft and delicate fem au ra look versus how aggressive and strong male au ra look, and "beautifying" the only face that didn't look like a perfect doll just made it worse.

Yeah, who knows as to why some changes were made as they did.
Some are very minor and mostly just touched up the textures and polygons while others are more extreme.
I can only guess that seeing how some faces got altered more than others that there has to be some underlying reasons as to why.
Otherwise why would they go such lengths to do so?
Still sucks that peoples beloved faces they've used for ages changes like that.
If we at least knew as to why some changes were more drastic than others, if it had to do with technical reasons like it'll help with ingame animations, perhaps it could help with accepting such drastic changes.
But right now we are just greeted with something that to many effected feels completely unnecessar and I can agree with that.

[Ath192]

I just don't understand why they thought changing a face's shape, in some cases quite drastically, would be well received. Those of us who chose that face did so for a reason. For an example, for myself, if I wanted dimples and round cheeks and a pouty mouth, I would've just made a face 1 au ra, why'd they have to hit face 4 with the cutification beam? I've always had a problem with how much more soft and delicate fem au ra look versus how aggressive and strong male au ra look, and "beautifying" the only face that didn't look like a perfect doll just made it worse.

I am sure the biggest reason we chose our face was because most of us compromised and chose a face we were mostly okay with given that there are only 4 faces to choose from and millions of players play this game. As such, perhaps while also pointing out these preferences it may also be a good thing to point out we need a character creation revamp with many more options so we can make something less generic.

I absolutely agree with another user who posted that releasing the update without doing anything to the character creator may have not been the best move, it would give the players something they've been wanting forever, choice, and diffuse the changes to make it harder to compare 1:1 features since everything was much more changed in how characters were built for example. But this is something they can still work on and make it better for a future release imo.

[Loggos]

I just don't understand why they thought changing a face's shape, in some cases quite drastically, would be well received. Those of us who chose that face did so for a reason. For an example, for myself, if I wanted dimples and round cheeks and a pouty mouth, I would've just made a face 1 au ra, why'd they have to hit face 4 with the cutification beam? I've always had a problem with how much more soft and delicate fem au ra look versus how aggressive and strong male au ra look, and "beautifying" the only face that didn't look like a perfect doll just made it worse.

I really feel you. I had the same reaction when I looked at my Au Ra. She has just lost some of her sharpness and her sternness. She just doesn't have that "snap" anymore. I understand that the face shape is generally rather round but as you have shown in your comparison a few posts later it's clearly not just the lighting. I have seen my old char in all kinds of different lighting scenarios. I know she has a round face. But this is different.
They have made clear changes to the mouth. I completely agree that she looks like she's holding air in. The corner of her lips look puffed up beyond what you can achieve with improved lighting on the old model. The lips (the lower ones in particular) have also been made fuller and rounder, changing their overall aesthetics. But I also feel as if they took away some of the sharp edges of the eyes and the soft limbal rings also lead to a very different look/appeal.

All in all it's little tweaks but they add up, and as a sum they really alter the vibe and personality of a face.
I still like my char but I don't love her in the benchmark to be really honest. If I had to choose I'd stick with lower graphics but a face that actually captures what I want my char to look like.


My memory might completely betray me here but if I remember correctly the model changes from 1.0 to ARR weren't as drastic. Of course it was a downgrade and not an upgrade and there were differences. But it generally felt like the same facial features, just lower quality. I still felt like my character was the same person and not someone that looked similar but not quite the same.

I naively thought (and also really hoped tbh) the graphical update would mean going back to 1.0-ish standards, meaning the general looks/features would be preserved but the quality would be increased.
I didn't expect features to be changed so much.

I also recreated my bunboy and while I like his face he looks completely different. He is just straight up a different person. His face completely lost its sharpness and fierceness.

Technically speaking it may look more realistic now but the current cartoony style results in many looks having stronger definition because there are more sharp edges.
I prefer this kind of look on many faces to be honest (and yes, this is my subjective opinion). More realistic styles are not always more aesthetically pleasing to everybody.
In this case I feel like the increased realism led to a loss of visual clarity and definition of shapes.

I'm happy for everyone whose char looks good (genuinely).
But I do think voicing your disappointment is legitimate because it's not just a visual upgrade it's also a (slight) change in art direction. And if you liked the game's current art direction - and some of us have been playing this game for 10+ years - you might be really attached to it.
If that art direction is changed it's completely normal in my eyes to feel like something you always really appreciated about the game is now dampened (slightly, moderately or severely depending on how strong you perceive the change).