What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[WeebPolice]

They need to pick a power and intelligence level for the WOL and base all future interactions with the antagonists to stop this pointless superman dilemma drama

Well citizen, that would make things difficult for the MSQ writer who is so used to pulling the WOL and the Scions out of any bad situation on a whim.




Light be with you.

[Sayo_]

If villains were pragmatic enough to just grab the hero and drop them into a volcano or whatever, there'd be no story at all.

More importantly to this specific instance, Fandaniel wanted us to go to the moon and kill Zodiark for him to restart the Final Days. Killing us off before that would defeat his own goal. "In From the Cold" was basically just elaborate theater to get us to stop faffing about with the rabble (as Fannypack and Zenos would see it) and get back to their plot.

Yeah but that still raises the question of "Why didn't they do it before?" The out of universe explanation is "There wouldn't be a story" but there's no in universe explanation. You can't just pull something like Fandaniel did and expect it not to be questioned.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Yeah but that still raises the question of "Why didn't they do it before?" The out of universe explanation is "There wouldn't be a story" but there's no in universe explanation. You can't just pull something like Fandaniel did and expect it not to be questioned.

Aulus's technology didn't exist before late Stormblood, so nobody could've done it sooner. Keeping that in mind, and that only an Ascian could've actually pulled off the teleporting trick to nab the WoL out of thin air like that, it's pretty easy to see why nobody tried. Lahabrea was simply too arrogant to ever consider us that much of a threat, and then he gets offed by Thordan. Emet-Selch was still out of commission until he pops up in 4.4, and then sets the Black Rose plan into motion, assuming that will kill everyone, including the WoL (and the Eighth Calamity timeline shows he was right), so there was no reason to bother. By the time that plot gets derailed, he's already gone off to the First, and then he gets curious about what we're doing there, so the plot of Shadowbringers happens instead. More than likely, he would've told Elidibus about what he was up to, since Elidibus knew where Emet was and when he died. Elidibus was also undergoing a very noticeable breakdown of his sanity by that time, so he wasn't exactly thinking of the quickest and simplest way to do things. And they clearly kept a tight rein on their sundered underlings (since the last time they let one have too free a hand, the Thirteenth happened), since Fandaniel started going off-script as soon as he was sure that the last two unsundered were gone.

As for why Fandango didn't just kill us sooner; again, he didn't just want to kill the WoL, he wanted to use them to kill Zodiark first. Then the Final Days could kill us for him.

The closest any of them got to being that directly pragmatic was Nabriales, who tried to grab Tupsimati the minute he realized the Blessing of Light was sealed and (he assumes) we couldn't actually stop him anymore. And that didn't end well for him, either.

[Carin-Eri]

They need to pick a power and intelligence level for the WOL and base all future interactions with the antagonists to stop this pointless superman dilemma drama

This is actually where garlamald got it right where they tried to hold you down by threatening the twins, I’m not saying every time they do something like this but this played to the fantasy of the WOL much better, they knew they didn’t stand a chance against him so they threatened his friends

EW already spent too much time running the power fantasy of the WOL (I’m not even gonna mention how elpis infantilised us) they really need to stop doing it in DT

I disagree.

Beyond perhaps rumours and stories, there isn't really any reason to think that the people of Tural know much (if anything) about the Warrior of Light, let alone who that person is/what they look like.

[Vyrerus]

I have a story question that I’m not sure if it’s fully explained or not, well two questions in one sorta

1) did the twelve get sundered, if yes where does their immense power come from and what about the shards of the 12, if no then my second question

2) does deryk retain memories of the unsundered world

(Half of me is genuinely curious the other half is trying to make my WOLxderyk headcanon world lore accurate)

1. The Twelve were not Sundered. They used their entire life force to sacrifice themselves to create Hydaelyn. Venat as Hydaelyn then took what remained (because something remained somehow, even though the dev interview that revealed this said nothing was left and they were all used up) and fashion the 12 from her memories of them, essentially fashioning them into deific simulacra of who they used to be.

2. Deryk might have some memories here or there, it's entirely up to the scriptwriters. It's been a minute since I completed myths, but I'm pretty sure it was him who gave us the lines about the personalities and jobs the 12 had when they were Ancient Ascians still back in Elpis, which is how some people know which Ancients they were because of who does what in which sidequests in Elpis.

[Supersnow845]

I disagree.

Beyond perhaps rumours and stories, there isn't really any reason to think that the people of Tural know much (if anything) about the Warrior of Light, let alone who that person is/what they look like.

That’s not really what I mean

I mean they need to stop making the WOL an invincible god in one cutscene then a bumbling idiot who gets captured by a generic bandit the next

Set very clear and defined boundaries for what the WOL can and can’t do and if he should become stronger then change the boundaries, not this weird half half we have

1. The Twelve were not Sundered. They used their entire life force to sacrifice themselves to create Hydaelyn. Venat as Hydaelyn then took what remained (because something remained somehow, even though the dev interview that revealed this said nothing was left and they were all used up) and fashion the 12 from her memories of them, essentially fashioning them into deific simulacra of who they used to be.

2. Deryk might have some memories here or there, it's entirely up to the scriptwriters. It's been a minute since I completed myths, but I'm pretty sure it was him who gave us the lines about the personalities and jobs the 12 had when they were Ancient Ascians still back in Elpis, which is how some people know which Ancients they were because of who does what in which sidequests in Elpis.

Perfect that’s exactly what I needed

[Swordsman]

It would be an interesting topic to delve into, citizen, and it would have made for an excellent subplot. All we know from Stormblood and Ala Mhigo is that a Garlean discovered a way to separate a soul from its body, but it didn't describe any method of implanting that soul into someone else's body. There is much to be clarified.

Yeah, a better explanation would be great. Sadly, minor plot points like this won't get clarification like the "clarification" we got from Yoshi P during the Letter from the Producer Live Part LXVIII regarding the paradox of the Unsundered. As of now most of this is left to our own personal interpretations.

They need to pick a power and intelligence level for the WOL and base all future interactions with the antagonists to stop this pointless superman dilemma drama

I 100% agree with this. It seems the writers will adjust the power level of the WoL based on whatever the story calls for at the time and I'm tired of seeing these wild power fluctuations happen just for the sake of seeing the plot progress.

Well citizen, that would make things difficult for the MSQ writer who is so used to pulling the WOL and the Scions out of any bad situation on a whim.




Light be with you.

Lmao, this is true. It acts as a very handy get out of jail free card that can be used at any time. I think I said something like this a while back too.

[fulminating]

That’s not really what I mean

I mean they need to stop making the WOL an invincible god in one cutscene then a bumbling idiot who gets captured by a generic bandit the next

Set very clear and defined boundaries for what the WOL can and can’t do and if he should become stronger then change the boundaries, not this weird half half we have

As long as the warrior of light is far closer to zenos than the writers admit it can be forced to make sense. All it requires is inheriting the unhealthy obsession with finding a "good fight" at any cost. This would retroactively mean the wol sacrificed the bozja guys to gunnhildr for the sake of a better opponent, but is that really worse than standing there with a revolver/bow/staff/whatever in hand and letting her monologue for no reason? Alsorom a pure laziness standpoint, getting captured by a generic bandit might be the fastest way to reach the bandit leader, requiring only complete apathy to safety or collateral damage.

Maybe they could add an "uninterrupted tedium" buff for a boss fight that does nothing but reduce attack potency and movement speed until the boss changes phase, deals notable damage to a player or something making them worth paying attention to.

[Supersnow845]

As long as the warrior of light is far closer to zenos than the writers admit it can be forced to make sense. All it requires is inheriting the unhealthy obsession with finding a "good fight" at any cost. This would retroactively mean the wol sacrificed the bozja guys to gunnhildr for the sake of a better opponent, but is that really worse than standing there with a revolver/bow/staff/whatever in hand and letting her monologue for no reason? Alsorom a pure laziness standpoint, getting captured by a generic bandit might be the fastest way to reach the bandit leader, requiring only complete apathy to safety or collateral damage.

Maybe they could add an "uninterrupted tedium" buff for a boss fight that does nothing but reduce attack potency and movement speed until the boss changes phase, deals notable damage to a player or something making them worth paying attention to.

That would imply that the WOL is the same as Zenos which the game goes to great pains to show he is not (something that garlemald actually does well) that the old saying “we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions” is flawed. The WOL IS better than Zenos and has actually reasons to try to fight for what’s right, even if they still leave an ocean of blood in their wake

The entire game is trying to say that the “we are the same” answer you can give to Zenos is wrong

[WeebPolice]

Yeah, a better explanation would be great. Sadly, minor plot points like this won't get clarification like the "clarification" we got from Yoshi P during the Letter from the Producer Live Part LXVIII regarding the paradox of the Unsundered. As of now most of this is left to our own personal interpretations.

Hmm, citizen? Was the poorly improvised reason from YoshiP during the live letter not to anyone's liking?




Sun and moon light your way.