What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Carin-Eri]

They need to pick a power and intelligence level for the WOL and base all future interactions with the antagonists to stop this pointless superman dilemma drama

This is actually where garlamald got it right where they tried to hold you down by threatening the twins, I’m not saying every time they do something like this but this played to the fantasy of the WOL much better, they knew they didn’t stand a chance against him so they threatened his friends

EW already spent too much time running the power fantasy of the WOL (I’m not even gonna mention how elpis infantilised us) they really need to stop doing it in DT

I disagree.

Beyond perhaps rumours and stories, there isn't really any reason to think that the people of Tural know much (if anything) about the Warrior of Light, let alone who that person is/what they look like.

[Supersnow845]

I disagree.

Beyond perhaps rumours and stories, there isn't really any reason to think that the people of Tural know much (if anything) about the Warrior of Light, let alone who that person is/what they look like.

That’s not really what I mean

I mean they need to stop making the WOL an invincible god in one cutscene then a bumbling idiot who gets captured by a generic bandit the next

Set very clear and defined boundaries for what the WOL can and can’t do and if he should become stronger then change the boundaries, not this weird half half we have

1. The Twelve were not Sundered. They used their entire life force to sacrifice themselves to create Hydaelyn. Venat as Hydaelyn then took what remained (because something remained somehow, even though the dev interview that revealed this said nothing was left and they were all used up) and fashion the 12 from her memories of them, essentially fashioning them into deific simulacra of who they used to be.

2. Deryk might have some memories here or there, it's entirely up to the scriptwriters. It's been a minute since I completed myths, but I'm pretty sure it was him who gave us the lines about the personalities and jobs the 12 had when they were Ancient Ascians still back in Elpis, which is how some people know which Ancients they were because of who does what in which sidequests in Elpis.

Perfect that’s exactly what I needed

[fulminating]

That’s not really what I mean

I mean they need to stop making the WOL an invincible god in one cutscene then a bumbling idiot who gets captured by a generic bandit the next

Set very clear and defined boundaries for what the WOL can and can’t do and if he should become stronger then change the boundaries, not this weird half half we have

As long as the warrior of light is far closer to zenos than the writers admit it can be forced to make sense. All it requires is inheriting the unhealthy obsession with finding a "good fight" at any cost. This would retroactively mean the wol sacrificed the bozja guys to gunnhildr for the sake of a better opponent, but is that really worse than standing there with a revolver/bow/staff/whatever in hand and letting her monologue for no reason? Alsorom a pure laziness standpoint, getting captured by a generic bandit might be the fastest way to reach the bandit leader, requiring only complete apathy to safety or collateral damage.

Maybe they could add an "uninterrupted tedium" buff for a boss fight that does nothing but reduce attack potency and movement speed until the boss changes phase, deals notable damage to a player or something making them worth paying attention to.

[Supersnow845]

As long as the warrior of light is far closer to zenos than the writers admit it can be forced to make sense. All it requires is inheriting the unhealthy obsession with finding a "good fight" at any cost. This would retroactively mean the wol sacrificed the bozja guys to gunnhildr for the sake of a better opponent, but is that really worse than standing there with a revolver/bow/staff/whatever in hand and letting her monologue for no reason? Alsorom a pure laziness standpoint, getting captured by a generic bandit might be the fastest way to reach the bandit leader, requiring only complete apathy to safety or collateral damage.

Maybe they could add an "uninterrupted tedium" buff for a boss fight that does nothing but reduce attack potency and movement speed until the boss changes phase, deals notable damage to a player or something making them worth paying attention to.

That would imply that the WOL is the same as Zenos which the game goes to great pains to show he is not (something that garlemald actually does well) that the old saying “we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions” is flawed. The WOL IS better than Zenos and has actually reasons to try to fight for what’s right, even if they still leave an ocean of blood in their wake

The entire game is trying to say that the “we are the same” answer you can give to Zenos is wrong

[Absurdity]

The entire game is trying to say that the “we are the same” answer you can give to Zenos is wrong

I don't think it is entirely wrong.
The WoL is still a bit of a blank slate. We go along with everything the Scions do but rarely is our motivation for it explored. It might look like we're fighting for what's right and morally good because that's usually the outcome of our actions, but why do we do it?

I actually quite liked the Zenos fight at the end for that reason. It felt like he was asking me, the player, the adventurer, why I was doing what I was doing, not the hero that everyone forces us to be.

The game might call me the saviour of the world, the warrior of light, but only because that is literally what the game's story forces you to be, the is no other option.

But I as my own character am actually a lot closer to Zenos than the game makes us out to be, I am in it for the challenge, the thrill, the hunt.

[Carin-Eri]

I don't think it is entirely wrong.
The WoL is still a bit of a blank slate. We go along with everything the Scions do but rarely is our motivation for it explored. It might look like we're fighting for what's right and morally good because that's usually the outcome of our actions, but why do we do it?

I actually quite liked the Zenos fight at the end for that reason. It felt like he was asking me, the player, the adventurer, why I was doing what I was doing, not the hero that everyone forces us to be.

The game might call me the saviour of the world, the warrior of light, but only because that is literally what the game's story forces you to be, the is no other option.

But I as my own character am actually a lot closer to Zenos than the game makes us out to be, I am in it for the challenge, the thrill, the hunt.

Agreed. I actually rather liked how that played out. He was right about us, when he identified/referred to our '"adventurer" roots and recognised that we were heroes through circumstance and a need/desire to do the right thing, rather than choice. For me, the only answer to his question that wasn't dishonest was "That, I can't deny" when he tells us he knows what we are.

At the edge of the universe, all other threats extinguished and with a clear mind, she can finally be a little selfish and admit, with a smirk, that she does love the challenge of a good fight - and when he does fight us he truly doesn't hold anything back. He pours everything he is into that fight, and so do we.

[fulminating]

That would imply that the WOL is the same as Zenos which the game goes to great pains to show he is not (something that garlemald actually does well) that the old saying “we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions” is flawed. The WOL IS better than Zenos and has actually reasons to try to fight for what’s right, even if they still leave an ocean of blood in their wake

The entire game is trying to say that the “we are the same” answer you can give to Zenos is wrong

Could you not look at it as the only times when it wouldn't be a social faux pas to pal around with zenos are when the wol and he are alone at the edge of reality and alone in a romantic rooftop rendezvous? I'm sure the scions wouldn't be as eager to provide things to fight after a social misstep like that.