Yay, i get to play my job with no changes for another 2+ years...

[Lyth]

...

P8S was the most recent example of this during week 1. You probably forgot because of how soft the last tier was. Pretty much any tier with relevant dps checks will lock out weaker jobs in PF at least.

[Absurdity]

P8S was the most recent example of this during week 1. You probably forgot because of how soft the last tier was. Pretty much any tier with relevant dps checks will lock out weaker jobs in PF at least.

For week 1 clears maybe, but how many times have we actually seen the meta enforced or weak jobs excluded for an entire raid tier? Gordias? Certainly wasn't a thing in Sigmascape, Alphascape or the entirety of Eden.

P8S was so egregious exactly because we were supposed to get good balance in exchange for jobs being this boring slop, and they still messed it up.

[Aravell]

You're contradicting yourself. You say a meta is unavoidable, yet want the dev team to focus on making jobs fun to play. This game has already experienced a time when jobs weren't so streamlined, individual, unique, and fun. The meta saw to it that many of these jobs were excluded in comps. A meta that forced players to take on jobs they did not care to play in order to be able to participate in the game's more difficult content. If you think I am just going to excuse a poor mentality from gamers, that is as likely to happen as the meta going away. Players are every bit as accountable as the dev team.

How is that a contradiction? I want the dev team to focus on making jobs fun to play and ignore the meta created by players because players will create one no matter what. Trying to squash a player-created meta is a waste of time as they'll always make another, it's good enough that they removed hyper dependencies like piercing/slashing debuffs so jobs aren't an auto lock in anymore.

You keep saying players are forced to take on the meta if they intend to do high end content, yet I see a lot of WHM and SGE around in PF despite AST and SCH being meta. You can't just blame the meta for everything you think is wrong, it's the people wielding the meta in a stupid manner that are a problem, not the meta itself.

Like I said in my previous post, if someone is complaining that they're being denied a slot in an optimisation group because they refuse to play a meta job, that's something the dev team can ignore. It's like someone trying to speedrun a game and ignoring speedrun strats then complaining that they're last on the leaderboards.

[Lyth]

No, I don't think you can ignore the meta. If there's a large difference in rDPS players will select against weaker jobs. That's not optimization, it's just pragmatism.

There's nothing more frustrating than hitting sub 1% repeatedly and knowing that a job switch will get you past that.

[Aravell]

No, I don't think you can ignore the meta. If there's a large difference in rDPS players will select against weaker jobs. That's not optimization, it's just pragmatism.

There's nothing more frustrating than hitting sub 1% repeatedly and knowing that a job switch will get you past that.

Job rDPS output can be adjusted easily, job design cannot.

Also, the only actual time this has been a problem was in EW (Abyssos) which is, funnily enough, the expansion where they did the most homogenisation for balance reasons.

[Lyth]

Sure, it's easy to adjust, but it needs to be done regardless. rDPS parity should be baseline.

A lot of people don't realize that partial homogenization is worse than complete homogenization.

[Oizen]

Why do you even pay attention to XIV hype events? This game never breaks the mold in any way, you can predict just about anything thats going to be in any expansion update, the devs are physically incapable of doing anything that isn't formulaic and the same of what came before.

[Jeeqbit]

Storm's Path was a 10% all damage down until they changed it to give gauge. So all of HW.

Ok, I didn't remember that because I didn't raid with Warrior in HW and only really used it for the tank mounts at first. I associated Storm's Path with just when I needed to survive stuff with healing.

But my other points still stand - that these combos were DPS losses and that SE viewed Warrior's lack of utility as a problem in Stormblood.

From a thematic standpoint, I don’t understand why Warrior, or really any tank except for Paladin, has party sustain utility.

I don't either, but if they're going to have it, doing it different to Paladin's flat out Clemency cast is preferable, because then at least it's unique. Healing via doing damage is at least different, even if it it results in much the same effect.

What would make more sense for warrior would be inflicting a damage dealt down debuff to enemies

Unfortunately, we got role actions so all the tanks have Reprisal. They should either get rid of Role Actions but make "actions that serve a similar purpose" for each job, or make the actions in the Role section appear/behave a little differrent depending on the job, just to prevent them being too similar.

a party wide bloodbath.

That's a good idea.

As for why the regen was added to Shake, I think it was just because of the raid-wide DoTs in Abyssos and was an attempt to make it compete with Paladin's Divine Veil. But I think a party-wide bloodbath should achieve a similar effect provided there isn't a transition happening.

[Supersnow845]

Whilst it would be unique, you have to take into account not all mechanics that could require party mitigation necessarily have a target to debuff, which means you have made an action that is just inferior to all other party mitigations. Even DRK and GNB have criticisms because they only mitigate magical damage as opposed to PLD and WAR that shields all damage.

Yes the tank raidwide mitigations should have differences, right now SIO is just objectively the best mitigation in functionally every situation that’s not terminal relativity or curtain call specifically

Make it so WAR’s mitigation only works when it can hit the boss but in exchange the mitigation is 15% instead of 10 like HOL/DM so that when you can hit the boss it’s mitigation is at an advantage but it’s at a disadvantage when you can’t hit the boss like how HOL/DM are at a disadvantage in that they are useless against physical damage

WAR doesn’t need to have literally the best version of every button that has ever seen the inside of a modern tank kit

[Neoyoshi]

We watched and listened to entirely two different panels if that was your take-away from what Yoshida said.

Because i heard: "we want to make content more challenging and rewarding"

Has it even occured to folk that Jobs aren't the problem? but the content itself???

If the content isn't challenging and it's instead mundane and repetitive, then of course the job you play is going to feel terrible, because the content isn't forcing you to think creatively and make decisions on that job you normally wouldn't make.

Yoshida focusing on the content itself is what we actually need; because jobs get tweaked during patches all the time; it's the content that needs to be reworked.