What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Carin-Eri]

I will agree for all the focus the concept of The Final Days had in marketing and EW lead up it pales in comparison to most threats that came before it. I always find it a bit sad The Calamity in the long term had way more effect on the world and story then something called The Final Days.

It also would have felt a bit more impactful if it had lasted longer and had effected more zones throughout the MSQ. I am amazed Sharlayan never had to deal with it for example. At the end of the day it added to EW feeling like a rushed job expansion because the writers wanted a new story and were sick of the old one.

Forced to agree.

I'm actually not in the 'Endwalker sucks' camp here - I enjoyed it and I'm not willing to pretend otherwise. And I wasn't exposed to the pre-launch marketing/hype since I didn't start playing the game until shortly after EW launched and avoided anything related to it for the sake of not spoiling the MSQ for myself. Playing the MSQ at my own pace, I didn't actually reach Endwalker until the following March.

And I watched the Footfalls Cinematic right before I started Endwalker. To this day I still think that cinematic was incredible - I recall watching it that first time. The music and the lyrics, the promise of a 'end of the world' scenario story. The emphasis on the moon and the question of it's role in the story, not to mention the question of why the Warrior of Light was on the moon - alone no less! I was completely blown away by it and couldn't wait to see how it would all translate into the story.

But even as someone who very much enjoyed Endwalker.... I don't think the story quite lived up to what the cinematic portrayed.

As you say, 'The Final Days' should've been a world-changing, almost apocalyptic, event - but it doesn't feel as if it had as big an impact, or long-term consequence, on the world as Dalamud/Bahamut did.

[Haru304]

Off the back of Shadowbringers, it was not really on the same tier to be quite honest, though I think Shadowbringers had the benefit of mostly being in its own segmented universe for the most part and while it had an enormous impact on the meta story, it did not solely revolve around the meta story of Eorzea. The Final Days was introduced in Shadowbringers, then imminently carried out in Endwalker. What we have in Endwalker, which I feel is the major problem, is far too much all happening at the same time.

- Destruction of the one major power in the world that's extremely militaristic
- A genocide that lasts for all of five minutes
- A very disappointing Zodiark reveal accompanied by the existence of moon rabbits
- Even more overt time travel themes
- Introduction of three different cultures and socities, unfortunately all extremely condensed (Garlemald, Sharlayan, Thavnair, etc) (actually, include Elpis and the Ancients in that too)
- Now, if you subtract the advent of Dawntrail, Eorzea has borderline Utopian feels. Beast Tribes have been brought into the fold, the Empire has been crippled over night, the Ascians are no more, the world is no longer ending, tempering is no longer an issue, etc. I'd hope by the time we return from overseas, there's some actual stress to deal with.

All in all, as far as MMORPG story content goes, it's not horrendous but it definetly could have been better. It had MGS4 vibes. "Let's tie up nearly every single loose thread ever as quickly as we can while clumsily introducing new ideas"

[Swordsman]

In terms of Endwalker's plot, the point to me where it went from alright to my least favorite story this game has ever told was the 2nd half. Specifically everything about the Final Days.
The big hyped up world ending event that absolutely destroyed Amarout and the rest of the ancients. I was looking forward to see how that would change the world, how each city would deal with it, theres a lot of potential for something like this.

What did we get? Red Sin Eaters that only attacked Elephants in India for like 2 days. Sure we had the role quests, but those were basically episodic mini-stories where we saw everyone we ever met was just fine actually, and only newly made npcs could be turned into Red Sin Eaters, everyone else was just fine. The only character across the entire journey we had across all expansions, the only one who struggles with potentially becoming a Red Sin Eater is Fordola, and its not like that even happens, and its not even part of the main story even, just some side quest for materia.

No one was affected by this in side stories in any lasting way, Only NEW characters were affected in the MSQ. It was insanely toothless and felt fake to me.

The Final Days really should have been called "The temporary inconvenience of elephant people"

Yeah, that was something I also noticed about the denizens of Thavnair during the final days. They pretty much got treated like red shirts from Star Trek. Their sole purpose was to pretty much be expendable non-essential characters that the writer could kill off without giving the audience the feeling that much was lost. Everything else you say about other parts of Eorzea being relatively unaffected during the final days is true too, and it brings to attention another glaring inconsistency.

[Vyrerus]

Forced to agree.

I'm actually not in the 'Endwalker sucks' camp here - I enjoyed it

My hype for Endwalker was higher than any other expansion, and it didn't really fade until a few weeks after it was over, and I was redoing the story on my as of yet unfinished LP character (stopped near the end of 6.1 on him iirc).

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it did not live up to the hype it generated. It was the first expansion I even requested off time from work to play ASAP.

[ReynTime]

My hype died during the Elpis segment. I was "co-op"ing with a couple friends. When the quest where we waste time running around after Meteion started we realized we didn't care about what was happening anymore.

I remember laughing out loud in the voice chat when "Kairos" happened.

[fulminating]

With the imagery used regarding ancients (paradise lost, hermetica trimegestos, light, rebellion etc), was venat intended to fit into the lucifer role or is that just an unfortunate coincidence?

[Swordsman]

My hype died during the Elpis segment. I was "co-op"ing with a couple friends. When the quest where we waste time running around after Meteion started we realized we didn't care about what was happening anymore.

I remember laughing out loud in the voice chat when "Kairos" happened.

Lol, same. It must be very convenient for the writers to be able to just throw in a plot device that wipes the memory of the characters for the sake of preserving continuity of the timeline. It's some incredibly contrived writing.

[Absurdity]

With the imagery used regarding ancients (paradise lost, hermetica trimegestos, light, rebellion etc), was venat intended to fit into the lucifer role or is that just an unfortunate coincidence?

Pretty sure it's entirely coincidence, considering the devs still thought Hydaelyn was pure good after the 6.0 MSQ.

[LilithRose]

I personally don't mind how Zodiark was handled.
It would have been a bit too predictable to have him being the end goal
+ he's still a primal, we know how to deal with those by then, no matter how strong.

Having said that, I have always hated time-travel + memory spells as story elements, so I can't say I was a big fan of the whole Elpis chapter

Yeah, Zodiarc could've been a bit more impressive. But ehh, I agree more with the time-travel + memory spell story elements in the Elpis character. I feel like it also soiled the great legacy Emet left behind in Shadowbringers.
Or the happy sappy ending where all the main team's characters just make it through happily ever after. I would've loved to see some shake up/party change for the new expansion. Cause I feel character development has become quite stagnant in a lot of them. Far gone are the days where we were uncertain if some characters would make it through alive, and the impact THAT left us.

- Destruction of the one major power in the world that's extremely militaristic
- A genocide that lasts for all of five minutes
- A very disappointing Zodiark reveal accompanied by the existence of moon rabbits
- Even more overt time travel themes
- Introduction of three different cultures and socities, unfortunately all extremely condensed (Garlemald, Sharlayan, Thavnair, etc) (actually, include Elpis and the Ancients in that too)
- Now, if you subtract the advent of Dawntrail, Eorzea has borderline Utopian feels. Beast Tribes have been brought into the fold, the Empire has been crippled over night, the Ascians are no more, the world is no longer ending, tempering is no longer an issue, etc. I'd hope by the time we return from overseas, there's some actual stress to deal with.

All in all, as far as MMORPG story content goes, it's not horrendous but it definitely could have been better. It had MGS4 vibes. "Let's tie up nearly every single loose thread ever as quickly as we can while clumsily introducing new ideas"

This hits the nail on the head. It feels very much like this expansion is mostly there to tie up loose ends, and adds the areas we were still missing. So they had a lot they wanted to do, and kindoff rushed through each one. Not giving them the proper build up, no space to properly experience the drama of it and emotional tension that ties into such supposedly big events, nor the pay off for having aspired to many of these points for so long.

It didn't suck completely, but it's a far cry from reigniting my passion for this game, which has sadly been dwindling along with the job design choices, and the kindoff lackluster content this expansion.

My favorites will always be Heavensward and Shadowbringers.

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

That would've been an interesting twist if Hydaelyn actually turned out to be the villain, lol. I was actually expecting it to be a hostile alien civilization from a distant planet when Meteion became possessed at Elpis. As cliche as that sounds, to me, that or Hydaelyn being a traitor would've been a heck of a lot more interesting than bird girl being able to use sadness and despair to kill people.

Considering the WoL is partly to blame for the time loop, it wouldn't have been far fetched for Hydelyn to snap and blame us and/or herself for the fall of the ancients. Did Venat cause everything to pass because we told her what was going to happen or did she do everything of her own will? My problem with the time travel was that it was so under used as a plot point that it mostly only served as fan service. The Fandaniel bit could have brought more Hermes to the present but was mostly used as a reincarnation ghost story.