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  1. #1
    Player
    ForsakenRoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    2,399
    Character
    Samantha Redgrayve
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Saraide View Post
    As a wild guess 'slightly less complex than tanks' would be a good target for SE to hit.
    IDK everyone else's exact stance on it but I'm looking at WAR, with condensed 123 combos, as the 'upper end of complexity' for healers. If we look at WHM, which some refer to as being the 'starting point' of the role in a similar way to how WAR is the 'starting point' for getting into tanks, we can make some comparisons:

    Eye combo - Dia
    Path combo - Glare
    Upheaval - Assize (but with 10s extra CD)
    Onslaught - ???
    Infuriate - ???
    Inner Release - POM (but double CD)
    Primal Rend - Misery (see note)
    Fell Cleave - ???

    note: While it could be argued that 3 FCs and a Primal Rend is 'kind of like' 3 Lilies and a Misery, the difference is that where you have to use the 3 Lilies first, before Misery is available (forcing Misery's place in the 4 GCDs to be locked as 'the last one'), the three FCs and PR can be flexibly moved about to suit the fight better, eg if you need to be constantly moving for something (cough TOP Pantokrator) you can move PR forward/backward to adjust for that

    Even with that note, we don't have a comparison for FC, Infuriate or Onslaught as a WHM. And while it's not necessarily 'required' that we have an analogue to all three, it would be nice to have at least one of them added, if we're going to see people make the WHM-WAR 'simple to get into' comparisons. A 0-100 gauge being added to the job instantly opens up design room to add both the FC analogue (the gauge spender), and a potential Infuriate analogue (OGCD that instantly grants X gauge). IMO, the FC analogue doesn't even have to be damage necessarily, I've previously suggested it be an AOE heal that makes itself damage-neutral by empowering your filler skills into Quake/Flood/Tornado, with Onslaught's role being covered somewhat by the addition of a Water GCD.

    Making healers actually match WAR's 'simplicity level' instead of 'WAR but even less' would solve like 90% of complaints overnight I bet
    (0)
    Last edited by ForsakenRoe; 03-19-2024 at 11:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Aravell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,043
    Character
    J'thaldi Rhid
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    Making healers actually match WAR's 'simplicity level' instead of 'WAR but even less' would solve like 90% of complaints overnight I bet
    Honestly, making healers match tanks in complexity would be just fine. WHM can be the straightforward powerhouse like WAR, SCH can be highly technical like old PLD, AST can be the speedy spammer like DRK, and SGE can be the more rotation-focused one like GNB.

    All the dev team has to do is accept that healers will always have downtime and they should be allowed to have things to do during it that doesn't amount to just wearing out their 1 key.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Saraide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    3,082
    Character
    Saraide Derosa
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    Honestly, making healers match tanks in complexity would be just fine. WHM can be the straightforward powerhouse like WAR, SCH can be highly technical like old PLD, AST can be the speedy spammer like DRK, and SGE can be the more rotation-focused one like GNB.
    I am surprised how well that would map out between tanks and healers. While tanks have their own struggles with their role and job design it definitely works better than healer role and job design.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Orinori View Post
    Aren't you the same Saraide who makes every savage pf blacklist you because you can never do a mechanic correctly and constantly causes enrage wipes? Pretty ironic to read this lmfao

  4. #4
    Player
    AmiableApkallu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,189
    Character
    Tatanpa Nononpa
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe View Post
    But if we look at WHM, which some refer to as being the 'starting point' of the role in a similar way to how WAR is the 'starting point' for getting into tanks
    I really wish "people" would stop referring to jobs like this. Is BRD the 'starting point' for physical ranged? What's the 'starting point' for melee? This characterization only ever comes up when attempting to justify why a job's design has been cut off at the knees.

    WHM is one half of an honest-to-gods calamity in the lore. It should play like the counterpart to BLM: serviceable in average hands, terrifying in the hands of a master with a good party.
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