What if we just removed Tank invulns

[DRKoftheAzure]

The removal of tank invulns can help lead to defensive cooldowns having shorter cooldown timers and/or second charge on defensive cooldowns, so I'm not completely against it... though for Dark Knight, it can only be seen as an improvement...

[Daliena]

What they probably forgot to mention was the other part of Warrior's old tank stance, it not only had 20% more HP than other tanks but also received 20% more healing, in exchange for their tank stance not granting them 20% mitigation.
This gave it some nice synergy with Scholar since you could put much bigger Adlo shields on the Warrior (especially when combined with Convalescence) and then deploy it to the rest of the party.

Fair enough, that! My smooth brain may have been around to see things like healer stance dancing and whatnot too (Cleric Stance it was called, right?), but I definitely don't remember everything. Would make sense then.

hey healers actually have to heal the Warrior? can't have that at all apparently. I mean that's how every other tank should be balanced around too, healers having to actually heal them from time to time.

Even if warrior had a higher base HP with it's current design it has more then enough self healing tools for healers to not need to actively GCD heal the warrior, But I was under the assumption that with a higher base HP they would receive more healing along with that actually.

What I liked about Warrior the most In SHB is you had two short CD's one to actively sustain one to mitigate, now warrior can mitigate around the same level as every tank, has way more healing then any other tank and has one of the strongest raid wides, only really Paladin can compare to warrior which the job has a invul that's nearly twice as long.

I think tanks like warrior shouldn't just be strong at everything but also should feel unique, I want the Job to have a identity but warrior cannot just be a tank that does everything pretty much better then every other tank with no downsides, Hence why i'd like it if warrior had a big amount of HP and had self healing tools to compliment that, they can have mitigations but that could come at the cost of a healing CD ect.

Yeah I'm with you on Warrior not being the be-all, end-all tank. I've been leveling my other tanks too and it is silly what a difference there is sometimes. I just want WAR to find it's own niché, but not end up at "wait why would we bring the one that requires more healer attention and time for no upside". Maybe Dawntrail will bring some changes.. Time will tell.

[Rithy255]

Yeah I'm with you on Warrior not being the be-all, end-all tank. I've been leveling my other tanks too and it is silly what a difference there is sometimes. I just want WAR to find it's own niché, but not end up at "wait why would we bring the one that requires more healer attention and time for no upside". Maybe Dawntrail will bring some changes.. Time will tell.

I really loved SHB warrior personally, It wasn't perfect but I feel like most of EW's changes have just been negative. (From my perspective, but this applies to most jobs imo)

I'm going to ignore Damage for the most part but i will mention that Warrior (also current PLD) shouldn't do more then Dark Knight, but I also think this is a issue with how raid buffs are currently designed which unironically makes number balancing more difficult Imo, unless every job gets the same value inside those buffs which you're seeing more and more of.

I really do want warrior to find its own niche, I want all tanks to be 1. Viable 2. Unique 3. fun to play, but in their current state they all have very boring basic rotations, all may be viable... but why take a dark knight when you get more value on warrior for less effort,I think a simple rotation can be fine for some tanks but when they all play the same rotationally? just DRK and gnb have to spam OGCD's more often... it's very boring. Ontop of that defensives are pretty much the same with DRK having slight differences (mainly which being downsides), I think DT they in general need to really find a place for tanks & Healers, otherwise DPS will become even more over populated with 2 new jobs and people moving away from tanks & healers.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The removal of tank invulns can help lead to defensive cooldowns having shorter cooldown timers and/or second charge on defensive cooldowns, so I'm not completely against it... though for Dark Knight, it can only be seen as an improvement...

DRK already has arguably the most accessible cooldowns for regular buster management, the only thing it does not have is an accessible form of sustain (like lifesteal for example). Living Dead is thematically basically that and is, cooldown aside, the best invuln overall right now. So if anything, DRK "losing" Living Dead would actually be felt harder both in terms of uniqueness and impact.

[LilimoLimomo]

I want players to have to struggle more for their achievements.

With respect, this is the kind of thing a movie villain would say. I'd recommend trying to not be the kind of person who feels the need to dictate how others live their lives.

If it affected you, it would be worth discussing. But what you want for other players matters so much less than what those players want for themselves.

[DRKoftheAzure]

DRK already has arguably the most accessible cooldowns for regular buster management, the only thing it does not have is an accessible form of sustain (like lifesteal for example). Living Dead is thematically basically that and is, cooldown aside, the best invuln overall right now. So if anything, DRK "losing" Living Dead would actually be felt harder both in terms of uniqueness and impact.

If it helps address issue of Dark Knight not having good or non-existent sustain, I'm all for it, because even after Living Dead got "buffed" it was still not enough to convince me to play it in anything outside of getting it to level cap just to complain about how bad/boring it's gameplay loop is, and I'm not even going to THAT next expansion if this trend keeps going for Dark Knight...

[All_Nonsense]

Technically 3. After getting blown out while using Holmgang you're left with just 1hp and need to recover quickly before or immediately after the invuln expires

[GoatOfWar]

Technically 3. After getting blown out while using Holmgang you're left with just 1hp and need to recover quickly before or immediately after the invuln expires

Good thing Warrior shits out comical amounts of healing with virtually every button available in the form of ''additional effects''.

[rawker]

Good thing Warrior shits out comical amounts of healing with virtually every button available in the form of ''additional effects''.

This. Thrill + Crit Equilibrium is more than enough to get back to somewhat comfortable HP.

[Espon]

I wouldn't be opposed to their removal, or at the very least making it they don't work on any attack that does more damage than your max HP.