JP Players healer feedback is...

[ForsakenRoe]

Every single change we saw in Stormblood pointed toward SE indirectly telling players that healer DPS is expected and is something they should engage with.

Problem is, SE could directly say 'you must DPS as a healer, if you do not you are playing your job incorrectly' and there will be some players that say 'that clearly does not apply to me', 'indirectly' saying things is how we've gotten to this point, they should have been more firm/less 'on the fence' about telling us if healer damage is expected of us or not, instead of this 'well you can, but dont bully people and hurt their feewings' that gives lazy players cover to be lazy and have netflix up on the second monitor while they do EX roulette

[Mayhemmer]

Problem is, SE could directly say 'you must DPS as a healer, if you do not you are playing your job incorrectly' and there will be some players that say 'that clearly does not apply to me', 'indirectly' saying things is how we've gotten to this point, they should have been more firm/less 'on the fence' about telling us if healer damage is expected of us or not, instead of this 'well you can, but dont bully people and hurt their feewings' that gives lazy players cover to be lazy and have netflix up on the second monitor while they do EX roulette

Is "If you have it, and can use it, and can benefit from using it, then you should use it" not the default mentality for any video game? It should be the default, because that's just game design... Any player, or even SE themselves, claiming otherwise should be flatly told they're wrong.

[ty_taurus]

Problem is, SE could directly say 'you must DPS as a healer, if you do not you are playing your job incorrectly' and there will be some players that say 'that clearly does not apply to me', 'indirectly' saying things is how we've gotten to this point, they should have been more firm/less 'on the fence' about telling us if healer damage is expected of us or not, instead of this 'well you can, but dont bully people and hurt their feewings' that gives lazy players cover to be lazy and have netflix up on the second monitor while they do EX roulette

In general, it's kind of difficult to report griefing done when players intentionally perform badly for a selfish objective. Like we can go back to the ancient example of 'I want to be an ice mage!' black mage RPers. At what point do you draw the line between someone just not playing at a particularly high skill level and griefing? Because we could look at someone doing nothing but spamming Blizzard and say, yeah, that person is griefing, but when the line blurs, and you have someone who maybe swaps into Astral Fire, immediately casts Flare/Despair, then goes back into Umbral Ice... Is that griefing? Or is that just someone playing the way they think is best?

[Niroken]

Then we reached ShB where Scholar had literally everything related to its identity removed, and Astrologian's card system was turned into the convoluted mess that it still mostly is. It did change a bit in EW, but the basic concept of all cards being the same 3%/6% DPS buff was established. And the rest is as you know it pretty much.

*Watching SE rip abilities from WHM to give to every other healer then removing Stoneskin only to give it back later as a limited instant cast ability.*

I can't wait for my new 100 cap ability to be an older ability that is functionally the same but with white/blue sparkles. SE is going to run out of sparkle effects eventually.

[Aravell]

*Watching SE rip abilities from WHM to give to every other healer then removing Stoneskin only to give it back later as a limited instant cast ability.*

I can't wait for my new 100 cap ability to be an older ability that is functionally the same but with white/blue sparkles. SE is going to run out of sparkle effects eventually.

You're getting Fluid Aura back at level 100. But this time, it binds the target AND explodes in a 400 potency AoE heal around the target!

[Azurarok]

To give you a summary of how healing has changed throughout the years...

Thank you so much, that explains a lot.

So casual more refers to players that preferred to heal and not dps much, if at all. It was kind of the way the game expected you to play most of the time too(with some decent reasons to, even), so it was still a viable playstyle even in hard content. That's wildly different from how I was thinking about it.

It seems pretty natural for the devs to then want to make hard content with healer dps accounted for. It also would make sense for them to not want to shut out the above players from being able to reach clears because of that and started simplifying it a little in SB, but I'm guessing it still wasn't received well at all since they ended up pushing it much further in ShB.

I have the impression a sizeable chunk of JP forumgoers were from that camp, considering when I asked them about the 1111 gameplay 2 years ago (link), the responses I got were largely some variation of "it can't be helped" or "it's right where it should be". I also recently wrote a thread (link) suggesting making healer DoTs 15s with subsequent uses extending its effect time up to 30s, which I thought could add a nice mobility/weaving option, but I also mentioned it'd make the dps-ing less mindless, and they kinda laser focused on that almost immediately, trying to write it off by saying they "don't need damaging tools distracting them from their heal work". It's like they're terrified of it becoming anything more than it is now.

[ForsakenRoe]

but I also mentioned it'd make the dps-ing less mindless, and they kinda laser focused on that almost immediately, trying to write it off by saying they "don't need damaging tools distracting them from their heal work". It's like they're terrified of it becoming anything more than it is now.

Wish I spoke Japanese so I could ask them: 'What heal work?' Where is this healing that they'd be 'distracted from', cos I've not seen it in any content I've been in, I still had time to do my stupid 1111 in Abyssos even with the higher 'healing requirements' (aka it needs more mitigation)

From what I gather from this though, the first bit specifically stands out. By the sounds of it, all we need to do to get JP on board with a design pitch, is to frame everything from the POV of 'it helps you to heal more', and not mention the acronym 'DPS' ever.

[4clubbedace]

What I've gathered from the JP forums is that they have this ideal way to see the jobs.

Healers only job is to heal. No damage what so ever, only the bare minimum. (I kinda agree. But I feel like there is a need for healer rework... at least for sage. [It's failure of a DPS healer])

Tanks need selfsustain more than anything. Actually there isn't enogh! (I know tanks need those skills but absolutely no nerfing of them of any kind?)

DPS is just DPS. All about damage.

tbf most of the people in anglo speaking do no play in DF, they play in PF where you can (if youre an ass) vet people, and kick people out or have a good group for farm/reclears.

DF is all randos all the time babyyyyyy which means your avaerage smuck is much much less reliable,
and unreliability is when healing is exciting.
the smoother the ship the less exciting healing is, so anglo speakers either want shit to hurt where they sweat healing, or a rotation.

neither goes well for what jp (the intended) way to play

[Azurarok]

tbf most of the people in anglo speaking do no play in DF, they play in PF where you can (if youre an ass) vet people, and kick people out or have a good group for farm/reclears.

I've only started savage recently, but most reclear parties I've joined through PF are still largely randos that just disband after like 2-3 failed runs.

I'm also pretty sure people sometimes join parties with jobs/roles they aren't as familiar with because those slots are already taken on PF, while with DF I'd imagine you're more likely to queue up with the jobs you'd prefer to do it with, so I kinda doubt it's all too different from how it is here.

[IDontPetLalas]

tbf most of the people in anglo speaking do no play in DF, they play in PF where you can (if youre an ass) vet people, and kick people out or have a good group for farm/reclears.

DF is all randos all the time babyyyyyy which means your avaerage smuck is much much less reliable,
and unreliability is when healing is exciting.
the smoother the ship the less exciting healing is, so anglo speakers either want shit to hurt where they sweat healing, or a rotation.

neither goes well for what jp (the intended) way to play

My apologies if I misinterpret this, however I would disagree that a job should only be engaging when someone is (1) in a party where other people are failing mechanics (2) in content that requires PF (3) a rotation is the general consensus, there are alternatives .

Not to mention the comment about vetting and kicking ? (lol).