Pulling why?

[ThorneDynasty]

This is like arguing DPS shouldn't need to feel pressured to switch from single target rotation to using AOE for dungeon mobs because "playstyle". If you don't have a clue how to tank and take some weird pride in refusing to learn, just pick a different role?

This game has a problem with toxic casualism, "you don't pay my sub", not toxic elitism.

[Supersnow845]

No, it does. Use your head, think it out.

If you are altering your playstyle as a tank to fit pull size you are doing something wrong because your mitigation rotation should not change, the healer just has to be slightly more alert

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It is not funny. It is bloody annoying how lots of ... players .... think pulling everything is a good idea.
And then they try to defend their behaviour here in the forums, being generally toxic about it.
That it is common doesn't mean it should be done.

Please tell me you are actually trolling?

There are only a few reasons why wall to wall pulling shouldn't be done, namely woefully under-geared, but other than that there is no excuse. Like even saying you are new to a dungeon after HW levelling dungeons is a poor excuse. All dungeons have more or less the same formula outside of the odd dungeon that has gated sections of small packs before the next set spawns. All roles played at a basic level, not even optimised where you are maximising your buffs, just using you standard AoEs and the odd damage buff here and there are capable of wall to wall pulls at a decent pace. Obviously this requires tanks to be making use of their defensive cooldowns and healers making use of their kits but even then one can often compensate the other.

now if you are a tank or healer and you are not actually making some modicum of an effort then stick to trusts or learn to play your job, because you are actively griefing by not respecting other peoples time by putting in an effort to work together to complete the dungeons in a timely fashion. 99.99% of the player base do not want to run the entire 90 minute clock of a dungeon to get their levelling / tomes/ gear for glamour or ultimate. People have better things to be doing with their time.

And a common thing means if dungeons are designed to allow the practice that so commonly happens in a most dungeon runs by the majority, and jobs are over equipped to handle wall to wall pulls you have 0 excuses for not doing it. And sure I might come across as sounding a little toxic, but most of the people that cry "you pull, you tank" or have their main character syndrome shattered and rant on the forums, maybe instead of crying, they should realise they need to learn how to play the game as the majority of the playerbase runs dungeons. If still in denial then find some friends or FC members to run at the snails pace they want or again use trusts.

[Supersnow845]

I should be allowed to make 3 other people run this content at the exact pace I want (even if the other 3 want a different pace) and if you don’t agree with that statement you are the toxic one who doesn’t respect other people

-is basically how YPYT can be summed up

Can’t wait to zone into my next dungeon and demand single targeting on my BRD because I don’t like BRD’s AOE rotation, I mean everyone needs to respect my playstyle right?

[Mayhemmer]

I've seen countless more instances of dps/healers going from zero to twitter meltdown on a tank for not w2w'ing the millisecond they see the first mob pack, or from getting even a scratch on them when they pull ahead, than I have of people harshing on a subpar healer for struggling to keep up. I can't even recall the last time I saw someone point out a dps for doing something lopsided (outside of unnecessarily pulling mobs in Aurum Vale's first room). It's one of the reasons I prefer to heal dungeons if I'm not going dps. I'm more comfortable with the expectations placed on me as a healer than I am as a tank. Even if tanking is simple, there is that sense of constant judgement on them I don't tend to see on the other two roles nearly as often.

That said, I'm never going to advocate against w2w'ing or encourage more forced slowdown in dungeons. Dungeons already tend to be dull enough as is. What I am going to advocate for is DT dungeons getting trash mobs that vibe check complacency in every player, not just tanks or healers. Mobs that will hand out hefty slaps every now and then to players who aren't paying attention or using all of their tools, as well as mobs that circumvent the usual tactics (like being outright immune to stuns). Not anything harsh enough to wipe groups, but enough to actually get people to pay attention.

Yeah I know, this wasn't a dungeon critique thread.

[Yuella]

It's only in NA. In other data centers, DPS and Healers are fine if tanks don't pull wall to wall.

[Lyth]

This issue doesn't actually have anything to do with genuinely new tanks. They're generally upfront about their inexperience. I've seen this a couple of times in levelling dungeons and the entire group was supportive and encouraged sequential pulls, and this was on NA.

Usually the problem comes up with slightly more experienced tanks who have done all the instances before but aren't quite good enough to do a pull smoothly. There's usually a lot of jank around establishing aggro, and you can't ever tell how many packs they're going to pull. They wait for everyone to unload their cooldowns before wandering off, dragging the mobs out of the party's ground effect AoEs. Pulling more mobs or asking them to pull mobs will be seen as a personal affront, and they'll never admit to their inexperience. It's nothing to do with whether they 'can' do the pull or not.

The solution is not to engage in conversation, but just keep moving after the first pack is pulled, stopping just before the activation point of the second pack. There's no argument because they think that was their idea to pull that next pack. You can effectively shadow tank the instance this way.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If 2 other players wants it slow, you vote out the puller.
If 2 other players wants it fast, you're out of the party.
If you want to stir the pot, you go to the forum to cry about a common dungeon etiquette.

It's that simple. Now carry on.

[MistakeNot]

Please tell me you are actually trolling?

No, I am not. There are NO good reasons to do wall-to-wall pulls. They just make runs more difficult and stressful for no good reason, and are poor tactics in general.
Doing w2w pulls is not a sign of being skilled - obviously since so many people try it even in low-level dungeons where it doesn't even speed up the run.

If people's time is so precious that a minute or two extra for a dungeon run actually matters, then they shouldn't be wasting their precious time on a video game.

[Mimilu]

I mean, do we really need tanks at the max-level dungeons anymore?
I've run a few dungeons where the tank d/ced and we were able to clear them with little-to-no fuss (so long as everyone remembers that they have mitigation too).
Everyone talks about no-healer runs but no-tank runs can be a thing too in a pinch. (●o’∪`o)ノ―♪`*.+