Pulling why?

[Canadane]

Why do healers or dps feel the need to pull wall to wall when the tank doesn’t want to or can’t.

Unless the tank is somehow below minimum ilvl, there's no tank that cannot pull to the wall in a level cap dungeon.

[ThorneDynasty]

This is like arguing DPS shouldn't need to feel pressured to switch from single target rotation to using AOE for dungeon mobs because "playstyle". If you don't have a clue how to tank and take some weird pride in refusing to learn, just pick a different role?

This game has a problem with toxic casualism, "you don't pay my sub", not toxic elitism.

[Supersnow845]

I should be allowed to make 3 other people run this content at the exact pace I want (even if the other 3 want a different pace) and if you don’t agree with that statement you are the toxic one who doesn’t respect other people

-is basically how YPYT can be summed up

Can’t wait to zone into my next dungeon and demand single targeting on my BRD because I don’t like BRD’s AOE rotation, I mean everyone needs to respect my playstyle right?

[Mayhemmer]

I've seen countless more instances of dps/healers going from zero to twitter meltdown on a tank for not w2w'ing the millisecond they see the first mob pack, or from getting even a scratch on them when they pull ahead, than I have of people harshing on a subpar healer for struggling to keep up. I can't even recall the last time I saw someone point out a dps for doing something lopsided (outside of unnecessarily pulling mobs in Aurum Vale's first room). It's one of the reasons I prefer to heal dungeons if I'm not going dps. I'm more comfortable with the expectations placed on me as a healer than I am as a tank. Even if tanking is simple, there is that sense of constant judgement on them I don't tend to see on the other two roles nearly as often.

That said, I'm never going to advocate against w2w'ing or encourage more forced slowdown in dungeons. Dungeons already tend to be dull enough as is. What I am going to advocate for is DT dungeons getting trash mobs that vibe check complacency in every player, not just tanks or healers. Mobs that will hand out hefty slaps every now and then to players who aren't paying attention or using all of their tools, as well as mobs that circumvent the usual tactics (like being outright immune to stuns). Not anything harsh enough to wipe groups, but enough to actually get people to pay attention.

Yeah I know, this wasn't a dungeon critique thread.

[Yuella]

It's only in NA. In other data centers, DPS and Healers are fine if tanks don't pull wall to wall.

[Lyth]

This issue doesn't actually have anything to do with genuinely new tanks. They're generally upfront about their inexperience. I've seen this a couple of times in levelling dungeons and the entire group was supportive and encouraged sequential pulls, and this was on NA.

Usually the problem comes up with slightly more experienced tanks who have done all the instances before but aren't quite good enough to do a pull smoothly. There's usually a lot of jank around establishing aggro, and you can't ever tell how many packs they're going to pull. They wait for everyone to unload their cooldowns before wandering off, dragging the mobs out of the party's ground effect AoEs. Pulling more mobs or asking them to pull mobs will be seen as a personal affront, and they'll never admit to their inexperience. It's nothing to do with whether they 'can' do the pull or not.

The solution is not to engage in conversation, but just keep moving after the first pack is pulled, stopping just before the activation point of the second pack. There's no argument because they think that was their idea to pull that next pack. You can effectively shadow tank the instance this way.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If 2 other players wants it slow, you vote out the puller.
If 2 other players wants it fast, you're out of the party.
If you want to stir the pot, you go to the forum to cry about a common dungeon etiquette.

It's that simple. Now carry on.

[Mimilu]

I mean, do we really need tanks at the max-level dungeons anymore?
I've run a few dungeons where the tank d/ced and we were able to clear them with little-to-no fuss (so long as everyone remembers that they have mitigation too).
Everyone talks about no-healer runs but no-tank runs can be a thing too in a pinch. (●o’∪`o)ノ―♪`*.+

[rawker]

I mean, do we really need tanks at the max-level dungeons anymore?

It's the same rhetoric with the rest of the roles. Basically, dungeons can be cleared by any jobs. That's one thing SE delivered. It may not be favorable to some but at least they stuck with their goal.

[Oizen]

Let em do it, if you all die, you die. Not like theres much of a penalty for it.