Pulling why?

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Why do healers or dps feel the need to pull wall to wall when the tank doesn’t want to or can’t. I’m seeing this recently in the past 2-3 weeks.

The tank says stop and everyone complains. It’s starting to become wow toxic.

If the tank doesn’t pull wall to wall that’s fine. It’s his job to decide how much to pull. Then when the tank says something the people want to argue.

If you want to pull then play a tank but stop pulling or over pulling as healer/dps.

Sounds like a you problem. Get better at tanking, put yourself ahead of the group and just pull wall to wall it's not difficult. Just use your AoEs and cycle mitigation properly.

Having to come to forums to complain about common tanking etiquette in dungeons that's been the norm since 3.0 if not earlier and comparing it to wow toxic, is kind of funny. Really does just show it's a you problem, stop blaming others and learn how you can do better.

[MistakeNot]

Sounds like a you problem. Get better at tanking, put yourself ahead of the group and just pull wall to wall it's not difficult. Just use your AoEs and cycle mitigation properly.

Having to come to forums to complain about common tanking etiquette in dungeons that's been the norm since 3.0 if not earlier and comparing it to wow toxic, is kind of funny. Really does just show it's a you problem, stop blaming others and learn how you can do better.

It is not funny. It is bloody annoying how lots of ... players .... think pulling everything is a good idea.
And then they try to defend their behaviour here in the forums, being generally toxic about it.
That it is common doesn't mean it should be done.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It is not funny. It is bloody annoying how lots of ... players .... think pulling everything is a good idea.
And then they try to defend their behaviour here in the forums, being generally toxic about it.
That it is common doesn't mean it should be done.

Please tell me you are actually trolling?

There are only a few reasons why wall to wall pulling shouldn't be done, namely woefully under-geared, but other than that there is no excuse. Like even saying you are new to a dungeon after HW levelling dungeons is a poor excuse. All dungeons have more or less the same formula outside of the odd dungeon that has gated sections of small packs before the next set spawns. All roles played at a basic level, not even optimised where you are maximising your buffs, just using you standard AoEs and the odd damage buff here and there are capable of wall to wall pulls at a decent pace. Obviously this requires tanks to be making use of their defensive cooldowns and healers making use of their kits but even then one can often compensate the other.

now if you are a tank or healer and you are not actually making some modicum of an effort then stick to trusts or learn to play your job, because you are actively griefing by not respecting other peoples time by putting in an effort to work together to complete the dungeons in a timely fashion. 99.99% of the player base do not want to run the entire 90 minute clock of a dungeon to get their levelling / tomes/ gear for glamour or ultimate. People have better things to be doing with their time.

And a common thing means if dungeons are designed to allow the practice that so commonly happens in a most dungeon runs by the majority, and jobs are over equipped to handle wall to wall pulls you have 0 excuses for not doing it. And sure I might come across as sounding a little toxic, but most of the people that cry "you pull, you tank" or have their main character syndrome shattered and rant on the forums, maybe instead of crying, they should realise they need to learn how to play the game as the majority of the playerbase runs dungeons. If still in denial then find some friends or FC members to run at the snails pace they want or again use trusts.

[MistakeNot]

Please tell me you are actually trolling?

No, I am not. There are NO good reasons to do wall-to-wall pulls. They just make runs more difficult and stressful for no good reason, and are poor tactics in general.
Doing w2w pulls is not a sign of being skilled - obviously since so many people try it even in low-level dungeons where it doesn't even speed up the run.

If people's time is so precious that a minute or two extra for a dungeon run actually matters, then they shouldn't be wasting their precious time on a video game.

[ThorneDynasty]

They just make runs more difficult and stressful for no good reason

You make the dungeon runs painful for everyone else. You aren't the main character.

Everything else you said is so ridiculously wrong I can only assume you are baiting.

[Lyth]

There are NO good reasons to do wall-to-wall pulls.

You can see the benefits from reading your tooltips. AoE actions provide more outgoing damage with more mobs present. This translates into faster clears. In addition, a greater proportion of your damage will be under burst, and a greater number of defensive actions will be up for each two pack pull. This translates into faster, safer pulls.

The reason why newer tanks find this process to be stressful is because they mistakenly believe that wipes during wall-to-wall pulls are automatically due to mitigation or healing errors and then take this to indicate a personal failure on their part. While wipes sometimes occur because someone forgets to press a defensive action, it's incredibly rare that you'll die in mid transit due to overwhelming burst damage.

What's more likely is that both supports to burn through their suite of defensive actions due to substandard dps, resulting in a slow death by attrition. In fact, I'll go a step further and say that the main determinant of a group's success during a wall-to-wall pull is group dps. If you have even a single geared and competent DPS with you, you're not going to wipe.

Bottom line, just pull everything. If there isn't enough dps between yourselves to do it safely and you wipe, just scale it back to chain pulls for the rest of the instance. No dialogue whatsoever is necessary for any of this.

[Sqwall]

No, I am not. There are NO good reasons to do wall-to-wall pulls. They just make runs more difficult and stressful for no good reason, and are poor tactics in general.
Doing w2w pulls is not a sign of being skilled - obviously since so many people try it even in low-level dungeons where it doesn't even speed up the run.

If people's time is so precious that a minute or two extra for a dungeon run actually matters, then they shouldn't be wasting their precious time on a video game.

I would have to disagree on the skill comment. Pulling wall to wall IS a gauge of skill for ALL members in a dungeon. Knowing how many Holy Spams I can get away with until diminishing returns kick in for the stun before I have to start healing takes understanding and a level of skill or if i'm healing and I see a WAR...I pretty much just don't even heal...GRAVITY go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. As a tank I know that if I hear 3 holys pop off I can start using mitigations and spreading them out. As a DPS I should know cone shaped AOE's vs Circle AOE's and where to position myself. Ogi Namikiri is a good example as it's very specific to hit all the mobs, and same for SMN Slipstream as it's a ground AOE that stays...and making sure I use it when the tank settles on a location for the pack...and as a tank knowing where those AOES on the ground are (Doton, Slipstream, Salted Earth)

So no you do need to have some level of skill and job knowledge so that you can pull wall to wall, and if you get in a grp that is REALLY CRANKING out the high numbers....dungeons DO go way faster.