Okay they weren't lying about the relic

[Xirean]

Not sure if you know what disingenuous means.

PotD also isn't dead. People use it for leveling still. People grind aetherpool for the shiny weapons there. You even have people still going for their first trips to floor 200 so they can go to HoH and EO. You do have to look a bit harder for a team if you want another group, but the content isn't dead just because you say it's dead.

Here's a real example of disingenuity though; your outright suggestion of tomes being the best way without backing it up besides pointing to HW relics as precedent. Even then, HW relics still make you go through various duties, and most of the tome dump steps have alternatives to straight up grinding poetics.

We just have very different ideas of how the relic is meant to be; and what dead means in terms of content. You assuming I can't provide more information as to why I prefer the EW relic obtainment system is pretty weird though. You know you can just ask instead of making assumptions right? In all seriousness though, tomes are great as they are accessible by the most amount of people and inherently future proofed as they don't rely on other system to keep them relevant. They are given out by basically every activity you can do in the game meaning the player has the most open choice of how to obtain their relic.

Anything that gatekeeps behind largely restrictive content is just annoying.

[Supersnow845]

We just have very different ideas of how the relic is meant to be; and what dead means in terms of content. You assuming I can't provide more information as to why I prefer the EW relic obtainment system is pretty weird though. You know you can just ask instead of making assumptions right? In all seriousness though, tomes are great as they are accessible by the most amount of people and inherently future proofed as the only system they don't rely on other system to keep them relevant. They are given out by basically every activity you can do in the game meaning the player has the most open choice of how to obtain their relic.

Anything that gatekeeps behind largely restrictive content is just annoying.

So by your own logic would you support the relic costing 60,000 tomestones rather than 6,000, keep the grind but make it an accessible grind

[Xirean]

So by your own logic would you support the relic costing 60,000 tomestones rather than 6,000, keep the grind but make it an accessible grind

yes /5char

[Supersnow845]

yes /5char

Okay that fair, I don’t particularly agree with it but I can see your logic on the matter

If they are going to continue using tomestones I’d prefer they introduce a “relic tomestone” that can be gotten for near anything like causality but is scaled so that duties that are more relevant to the expansion get better rewards, like I should get more tomestones from EO and variant than 4 expansion old content as an example

[NekoMataMata]

We just have very different ideas of how the relic is meant to be; and what dead means in terms of content.

That much we can agree on, although it's a different stance from what you held earlier. Now you're stating it firmly as your opinion, where as earlier you were clearly stating it as fact and you were attacking my statement by saying it was disingenuous.

You assuming I can't provide more information as to why I prefer the EW relic obtainment system is pretty weird though. You know you can just ask instead of making assumptions right? In all seriousness though, tomes are great as they are accessible by the most amount of people and inherently future proofed as they don't rely on other system to keep them relevant. They are given out by basically every activity you can do in the game meaning the player has the most open choice of how to obtain their relic.

Anything that gatekeeps behind largely restrictive content is just annoying.

You haven't said anything new besides lightening your stance from fact to opinion. You've even added in some strange rhetoric of gatekeeping.

While it's true that future proofing the relics is an issue, and that eventually with multiple more expansions worth of content Bozja and Eureka will most likely truly be dead when the playerbase spreads out even more, it currently isn't. There is no gatekeeping. If you want to partake in Bozja/Eureka related content to farm your relics then you still can. There is nothing stopping you. You have chosen to limit yourself, that is why you prefer tomes.

I don't really think there's room for discussion here, unless you want to claim I'm being disingenuous again. You prefer the tome grind and being able to do whatever content you'd like. You seem to be scared to expose yourself to new and different forms of content and that's your choice.

I can’t wrap my head around the ”Anima being straight up poetic dump”-sentiment. That’s not telling the entire story.

Sure you need a chunk for Umbrites—around 4,500 to 5,000 poetic per weapon. Add Aether Oil bringing in more 1,750 needed. But do you really farm the rest needed items with poetic, too? Do you not strategize how you want to generate the crystal sands whether you use Moonstones, Scripts, etc? Do you not strategize how much Singing Clusters you want to get via poetic vs daily & weekly quest? Do you clear ‘light farm’ step with 1,500 tomes? Do you not try to manage different types of currencies?

This comes from a ShB baby who never experienced the grind in its inception day.

Same though. I did all the HW relics, and I remember doing weeklies for my clusters and fishing for my sands. I did dailies for Alexandrites for the ARR relics since I was sacrificing the zodiacs to skip the first stage of HW and doing them all at the same time. I even used the strategy guide provided by reddit for running multiple zodiacs at once, meaning that you took the quests for the second to last stage at the same time that you were running book dungeons.

[Xirean]

That much we can agree on, although it's a different stance from what you held earlier. Now you're stating it firmly as your opinion, where as earlier you were clearly stating it as fact and you were attacking my statement by saying it was disingenuous.

I'm not sure why you assume I was saying anything as facts. What do I have to state " in my opinion" every time or something? I said a certain style of grind sucks because I think it sucks.

You haven't said anything new besides lightening your stance from fact to opinion. You've even added in some strange rhetoric of gatekeeping.

You asked me to back up my stance so I did. Unless you want me to link some sort of engagement metrics which would be a bit of a weird request.

While it's true that future proofing the relics is an issue, and that eventually with multiple more expansions worth of content Bozja and Eureka will most likely truly be dead when the playerbase spreads out even more, it currently isn't. There is no gatekeeping. If you want to partake in Bozja/Eureka related content to farm your relics then you still can. There is nothing stopping you. You have chosen to limit yourself, that is why you prefer tomes.

It actually still is gatekeeping. I did Eureka and Bozja when they came out and they sucked then to. They suck more now with less players. I was only a fan of the first zone of Eureka and everything else that came out of the exploratory zones just feels like needlessly punishing garbage with a side of watching Netflix while waiting for bosses to spawn. Eureka has no alternative and Bozja's alternatives are too specific, one of which requires content more dead then itself in the form of PotD.

I don't really think there's room for discussion here, unless you want to claim I'm being disingenuous again. You prefer the tome grind and being able to do whatever content you'd like. You seem to be scared to expose yourself to new and different forms of content and that's your choice.

Wrong again. I've tried quite a few different kinds of content in the game and I've come away with a perspective that certain ones just suck. Not to say that people can't enjoy them, but putting the relic behind that content makes it inaccessible and in my opinion the relic should be as accessible as possible.

[NekoMataMata]

I'm not sure why you assume I was saying anything as facts. What do I have to state " in my opinion" every time or something? I said a certain style of grind sucks because I think it sucks.




You asked me to back up my stance so I did. Unless you want me to link some sort of engagement metrics which would be a bit of a weird request.



It actually still is gatekeeping. I did Eureka and Bozja when they came out and they sucked then to. They suck more now with less players. I was only a fan of the first zone of Eureka and everything else that came out of the exploratory zones just feels like needlessly punishing garbage with a side of watching Netflix while waiting for bosses to spawn. Eureka has no alternative and Bozja's alternatives are too specific, one of which requires content more dead then itself in the form of PotD.



Wrong again. I've tried quite a few different kinds of content in the game and I've come away with a perspective that certain ones just suck. Not to say that people can't enjoy them, but putting the relic behind that content makes it inaccessible and in my opinion the relic should be as accessible as possible.

See I'm happy to agree to disagree on preferences, but you keep pulling out the words gatekeeping and inaccessible.

None of the relics are inaccessible. There's no debating that. If you want any of the relics out there, go get them. Put in the work and you will be rewarded. You just clearly don't want to and that's all there is to it.

[Xirean]

See I'm happy to agree to disagree on preferences, but you keep pulling out the words gatekeeping and inaccessible.

None of the relics are inaccessible. There's no debating that. If you want any of the relics out there, go get them. Put in the work and you will be rewarded. You just clearly don't want to and that's all there is to it.

What is it with you thinking this is about me not being able to get some random loot I want? I want it accessible so that more people can get it. Also by your logic Ultimates are accessible, which they fundamentally are not by design.

[Supersnow845]

What is it with you thinking this is about me not being able to get some random loot I want? I want it accessible so that more people can get it. Also by your logic Ultimates are accessible, which they fundamentally are not by design.

But what part of the relics is inaccessible, none of the content is hard, it’s all still easy to do, Im struggling to see how you can say they are inaccessible, ultimates are inaccessible because they are damn hard and require a lot of group coordination

Going into eureka is not

[MsQi]

Honestly the whole thing is a brilliant satire of the usual grind. "Maybe if we just kill more, try harder, use more aether, apply more Whale Jizz.. we can squeeze out just a little more power!"

They know there were people who love Hildebrand but there are some who hate him as well. So the "grind" is having to do Hildebrand, love it or hate it.