G-give it Back T---T; !!

[ty_taurus]

Reposting this because it got lost in a sudden bout of weird fighting over nothing and I think it adds some context to the "action bloat" thing.

But doesn't that mean your issue was with Namikiri and not Kaiten?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

But doesn't that mean your issue was with Namikiri and not Kaiten?

Yes, and I've also said that, and people tell me I'm wrong and namikiri was a great addition to the game even though its literally just old midare with an aoe.


One or the other needed to go, and they got rid of the old.

[ty_taurus]

Yes, and I've also said that, and people tell me I'm wrong and namikiri was a great addition to the game even though its literally just old midare with an aoe.


One or the other needed to go, and they got rid of the old.

But why did one or the other need to go, specifically? What about simply changing one or the other, or changing how they interact? What if Kaiten simply didn't boost Namikiri? Or what if Kaiten just had something like a 10 second cooldown with 2 charges, or some other way to limit it in such a way that your issue was no longer a concern? Why is the guillotine the first and only solution when we see a negative interaction?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

But why did one or the other need to go, specifically? What about simply changing one or the other, or changing how they interact? What if Kaiten simply didn't boost Namikiri? Or what if Kaiten just had something like a 10 second cooldown with 2 charges, or some other way to limit it in such a way that your issue was no longer a concern? Why is the guillotine the first and only solution when we see a negative interaction?

The same reason kaiten doesn't actually matter as a skill. They rolled it into the potency of the skills that actually used it and got rid of it. It's literally a flourish and thats it. It had no other purpose.


My issues with namikiri are that it was just old midare.




While I didn't hate kaiten in 5.x, it was.... kind of a pointless skill.



What you should be asking is for them to just add the animation to the casts, since thats pretty much what most people are complaining about. The missing animation. The kenki costs were negligible and anyone who played the job at any level higher than msq made sure to have enough. the nerf of cost from guren and senai was more egregious for kenki costs being made brain dead.

[ty_taurus]

What you should be asking is for them to just add the animation to the casts, since thats pretty much what most people are complaining about. The missing animation. The kenki costs were negligible and anyone who played the job at any level higher than msq made sure to have enough. the nerf of cost from guren and senai was more egregious for kenki costs being made brain dead.

I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

[AsiTsurugi]

I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

I just want to thank you for bringing some much needed common sense into this discussion. Thank you!

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I suppose if you are ignoring the impact it had at creating flow within your Kenki guage, then yes, I suppose that is all that people are asking.

Again, this goes back to a point I made before. Removing it has made a noteworthy chunk of players very unhappy, yet the opposite side of players who aren't unhappy were indifferent to it prior. Your indifference to a skill existing or not existing is a terrible trade off for someone else's major disappointment. It's not even a discussion of "well now people who didn't like it are happy" because responses like yours are "meh" either way. So why not return it so that the players who did enjoy it get to have that since you clearly didn't care before it was removed?

I think the number of people unhappy with its removal is far, far less than you actually think it is. Why do I think that? Because the number of people playing sam in savage didn't tank. It's still one of the most popular jobs.

Also, loud minorities are a thing, just need to look at politics for that to be obvious. I'm not saying you can't be upset that it's gone, and yes,your feedback is valid. But so is my opinion, and you can't tell me my opinion shouldn't matter because I don't feel as strongly about it as you do.

I was a SAM main since it's inception up until recently, due to disliking the 6.0 changes. I loved it at it's jankiest in 4.x. I loved it at it's best in 5.x. And I hate it now. (And I TRIED to like it. I did most of the 6.2 and 6.4 savage series on SAM, after having switched to DRG for 6.0. I ended up finishing 6.4 as MNK. And I haven't ever played MNK in Savage before that in any serious manner.

[ty_taurus]

I think the number of people unhappy with its removal is far, far less than you actually think it is. Why do I think that? Because the number of people playing sam in savage didn't tank. It's still one of the most popular jobs.

Also, loud minorities are a thing, just need to look at politics for that to be obvious. I'm not saying you can't be upset that it's gone, and yes,your feedback is valid. But so is my opinion, and you can't tell me my opinion shouldn't matter because I don't feel as strongly about it as you do.

I was a SAM main since it's inception up until recently, due to disliking the 6.0 changes. I loved it at it's jankiest in 4.x. I loved it at it's best in 5.x. And I hate it now. (And I TRIED to like it. I did most of the 6.2 and 6.4 savage series on SAM, after having switched to DRG for 6.0. I ended up finishing 6.4 as MNK. And I haven't ever played MNK in Savage before that in any serious manner.

People can continue to play the job even if they like it less. Misshapen Chair, for example, continues to bash the loss of Kaiten at every turn, but still plays Samurai. A change can be considered negative, yet not enough to push someone out of their favorite job.

But regardless, I stand by the point I made that you have failed to counter thus far: There are enough people who are unhappy with the skills removal, enough to develop a vocal minority--enough to be a discussion point in multiple video topics that were linked in the original post of this thread. No matter how little respect you have for those people complaining about the loss of Kaiten, what have we gained at the cost of their enjoyment? Your continued dislike of the job regardless of Kaiten existing or not? A large population of players who didn't care about Kaiten before, and don't really care now that it's gone? Great, what a wonderful reward. I'm glad all the people who either no longer play Samurai because of Kaiten, or simply don't like the job as much as they did got to lose something they cared about in exchange for general apathy.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

People can continue to play the job even if they like it less. Misshapen Chair, for example, continues to bash the loss of Kaiten at every turn, but still plays Samurai. A change can be considered negative, yet not enough to push someone out of their favorite job.

But regardless, I stand by the point I made that you have failed to counter thus far: There are enough people who are unhappy with the skills removal, enough to develop a vocal minority--enough to be a discussion point in multiple video topics that were linked in the original post of this thread. No matter how little respect you have for those people complaining about the loss of Kaiten, what have we gained at the cost of their enjoyment? Your continued dislike of the job regardless of Kaiten existing or not? A large population of players who didn't care about Kaiten before, and don't really care now that it's gone? Great, what a wonderful reward. I'm glad all the people who either no longer play Samurai because of Kaiten, or simply don't like the job as much as they did got to lose something they cared about in exchange for general apathy.

The thing is, if people keep playing it, despite the thing that apparently gave them the most enjoyment being gone, that tells SE it wasn't that big of a deal.

[AsiTsurugi]

The thing is, if people keep playing it, despite the thing that apparently gave them the most enjoyment being gone, that tells SE it wasn't that big of a deal.