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  1. #71
    Player
    Musashidon's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    1,792
    Character
    Blackmage Vivi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    the game will always follow its same formula and the game wont be entering any form of maintenance mode for a long time it is generating loads and loads of cash for SE so it will be continued to be updated for many more years.
    (2)

  2. #72
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    If the post 6.0 patches have shown us anything: We're already there.

    I don't think you guys have ever truly played a game in maintenance mode.


    They don't hire new staff (or attempt to) or release expansions. There are very few updates outside of small bugfixes.





    XIV is far from being in maintenance mode.
    (8)
    Last edited by Valkyrie_Lenneth; 12-25-2023 at 05:52 AM.

  3. #73
    Player
    StarRosie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    566
    Character
    Sakya Malha
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe View Post
    Can you please explain how it goes both ways?
    I have...twice. Pretty clearly. So you are either actively ignoring what's being said. Or it's flying over your head because you are conflating two separate things or too busy shoving words I am not saying at all down my throat. Or did you miss the part where I said I don't believe telling people to unsub isn't really going to help? I merely explained why others say it. Never once have I advocated that it is the right course. Or the points of trying to get you to see the forums are for BOTH positive and negative feedback? You want me to explain it AGAIN? Fine, lets roll it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe View Post
    As I keep saying the solution is not for critics to ubsub but rather for defenders to perhaps stay playing the game where being informed doesn't matter.
    This first and foremost is where I disagree, it just reads as advocating for anyone who has a positive outlook of the game to stay off the forums. Which reads advocating for an echo chamber of "Critical" or negative feedback only. Even though, as I have said, the forums are for both positive and negative feedback. I asked you, where are people supposed to go if they want to leave positive feedback in regards to a change or piece of content? Or feedback that tells SE they did something right? And you dodged the question in favor of shoving words I'm not saying down my throat.

    After all what exactly are you expecting in a place for discussions? Endless praise? Can't you just find that in the actual game?
    And this overall further solidifies what I said in the very first reply. You are conflating discussion with negative feedback. Which is why I asked the question "Where are those who want to provide positive feedback supposed to go?" which again, you dodged in favor of shoving words down my throat.

    Now please keep in mind, I am not saying you have outright advocated for an echo chamber. Because you haven't. Just like I haven't said telling people to unsub is a good thing, or that it helps. Or really...anything you have said that I am saying in your latest reply to me. I am merely saying, that's how this suggestion/idea READS. At least to me.

    If you don't like thread, don't read it. That's my suggestion.
    Have you considered blocking people and ignoring their threads when they consistently make posts you don't like? That is a function on this site.
    The reason I say that these sentiments go both ways is because, and I'm gonna be blunt here. Y'all never practice what you preach. Anytime a thread pops up that tries to provide positive feedback, the 'critics' descend upon said thread and be hypocritical jackasses. If ya don't like people telling others to unsub...why not block those people and ignore them? The option exists for you too ya know. However, that actually doesn't help anything when it comes to...actual discussion. But when a thread like this one pops up, and people overall disagree with it or something. The critics start parroting...
    If you don't like thread, don't read it. That's my suggestion.
    This all again, reads like advocating for echo chambers. Because if someone disagrees with the point of the thread, that also means...they don't like the thread. So, if we follow your suggestion, we cannot read the thread and post a disagreement. So what does that leave? Only posts that agree with the thread.

    Now, keep in mind that I am fully aware that to some degree, me saying that goes both ways also means the advocation for echo chambers would go both ways. But I also pointed out that the jackass behavior is on both sides. Which is also why I say...

    Quote Originally Posted by StarRosie View Post
    Personally, I think everyone should maybe grow up a bit and learn to have an actual civil discussion rather then suggest echo chambers.
    Which, you know, would probably help the forums not just be more tolerable, but actually serve their purpose. Full honesty, I was overall just going to ignore this thread after reading the article and some of the posts. But then I saw your post and felt like that was something I should maybe voice my thoughts on. Do I regret that choice now? Sorta. But it's better to voice your thoughts if something feels wrong. Which is also a ringing endorsement of "If you feel something is wrong with the game, say something." ya know.

    Personally, when it comes to the article this thread is focusing on...it just reeks of a quick piece meant to generate some clicks. The only thing I agree with is that the content formula is a tad stale. But everything else just reads like they browsed reddit or even here for some negative points and put them in the article, cause rage clicks are still clicks. Is that being cynical? Maybe. But I also know three people who have worked in game/internet journalism for a combined 35 years, and they've told me before that this is a pretty common practice. Especially if someone is behind quota. Or at least, it was in their day and place of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe View Post
    Your magic scenario where 1 million players simultaneously log off in protest of the game is never going happen.
    First off...that ain't something I'm advocating for. But secondly, I feel this needs to be said on this point in particular. People also said this about WoW. Again, that's not me advocating for folks to unsub, just that maybe 'never' is the wrong word there. Unlikely is probably the better choice. But, yeah. Lots of folks said this about WoW and uh...look what happened.

    But all and all, I really want to stress. Like hard stress. I am not saying you've advocated or directly said "Leave the forums to be echo chambers for negative feedback only!" and if at some point I accidently did because I missed it in my proof reading, I apologize. But overall, I'm just saying that's how it all READS and voicing my disagreement and thoughts on that. Also, understand that I got nothing against you, or really anyone here. So, if I said anything that gave off that impression. Apologies.

    I'm also probably done here, cause I'm putting too much focus on something that's just generating frustration. And that's not good for my health. So, have a good one. Live your best life.
    (6)
    Last edited by StarRosie; 12-25-2023 at 05:59 AM.

  4. #74
    Player
    armandojc3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    230
    Character
    Apoc Baldr
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 90
    Is OP the official "the game is dead but im not playing something else" guy or something?

    Just fuse his threads automatically i say.
    (4)

  5. #75
    Player Stormpeaks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    2,668
    Character
    Maya Jcb
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by armandojc3 View Post
    Is OP the official "the game is dead but im not playing something else" guy or something?

    Just fuse his threads automatically i say.
    Pretty much yeah

    "I hate this dead game it's terrible but I'll keep subscribing"
    (4)

  6. #76
    Player
    Colt47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,809
    Character
    Kan Himaa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    The only thing that I can kind of agree with in the article is that SE is likely not going to change much going into Dawn Trail, but as far as the situation with the rest of the game...

    1) A lot of people got funneled into savage because it became the only point of worthwhile reward. This has led to a ton of burnout as people who wouldn't normally do savage got funneled into savage. This also starved out other content in the game since Savage is such a massive time sink in hours, though with the lackluster rewards from the other content it is hard to really see people stay around for the other content.
    2) There is a sense that there was a lack of mid-core content, but in reality there was midcore content that just didn't mesh or felt united in how the other game systems work. The reason that the Foundation worked, was that it got people who were not into crafting into doing crafting. It made it easier and more accessible than it was before by providing a way to grind up levels, consume the goods that others were producing with crafting such as new armor and accessories that fueled the economy, and offered achievements and rewards along the way up the grind. Island Sanctuary offered basically nothing in return for it other than crafting materia and odd items. What the heck is the point of a crafting / gathering simulator if it doesn't even have synergy with any established system? And the new deep dungeon that almost no one remembers right now was effectively another PoTD grind for combat jobs that could only be accessed from level 80-90, when it should have been accessible from levels as low as level 20+. People who have played this game for a long time are just done with the old leveling and grinding content and need something new.
    3) Variant dungeons felt like a cop out on the more robust Bozja. The entire unlocking of nodes in a book was effectively people running one of three potential linear paths over and over again, and had to be done for the sake of wanting that information or a specific mount they stuck on it. The Criterion dungeons were basically just a means to get what people normally would get from doing actual achievements or randomly discovering something in an exploration zone, only far more limiting in how someone could acquire them since not everyone wants to do hard mode 4 man dungeons. Not to mention the kind of people that want to do hard mode 4 man dungeons are not the same people that typically want the non-glowy, average glam rewards and orchestrions. Heck, I doubt anyone who hardcore raids on aether cares at all about orchestrions or playing dress up in the same fashion that people who just log in to socialize would.

    I guess all I want out of FFXIV content is synergy. Make the crafting and gathering content help level or grind the crafting and gathering. Have the combat related content help level and get through the odd ball jobs that people aren't leveling, and don't forget the jobs go all the way back to level 1. Make end game content "Fun" to do and not "a research project coupled with hundreds of hours of dying with people you don't really give a crap about because it's a reshuffle every tier". And that last statement is specifically in regards to Aether because that DCs online culture was awful. Crystal was quirky but Aether is the definition of dungeons and dragons neutral evil. That and I swear that 99% of people who raid savage think this is a shonen manga where a hardcore exercise routine is going to get them through a savage fight, when savage is really an obfuscated puzzle that has to get unraveled and studied as a group. Honestly, obfuscated puzzles with dps checks is a pretty awful way to make content hard, but its a tab target MMO so no idea how anything is hard beyond making things confusing.
    (0)
    Last edited by Colt47; 12-25-2023 at 07:07 AM.

  7. #77
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,456
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by WetShoelace View Post
    I feel Final Fantasy XIV doesn't really have a direction or anything it wants to be at the moment
    It wants to be a Final Fantasy themepark (mixture of all the Final Fantasy genre games) with defining features from those games; in particular, the story. It also wants to offer raid content because of it having started in the MMORPG genre.

    It's doing both these things and doing them well. It is everything else that people have a problem with, but it is everything else that is not a fundamental part of the direction, other than being easy to get into which affects how easy jobs are to play and how easy dungeons are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath192 View Post
    I only sort of agree with it not being their last chance but the truth is that just like XI once the diehard playerbase starts to leave because they've lost hope they would be extremely hesitant to recommit to something like this again.
    I agree that if they lose certain types of players it may be hard to get them back, but not entirely impossible either and there are ways in which they could be brought back.
    1. SE has a certain reach through email marketing.
    2. They have a reach through social media followings to say if there has been some sort of fundamental change.
    3. They do free login campaigns, where you can invite your friends to return to the game, and people may do that more if they think the game has fundamentally changed in a way they would like.
    4. The FFXIV community is well-connected on discord and can spread word through that if there has been some fundamental change that their friends would like.
    5. SE has run advert campaigns on YouTube to get people to return that were meant to show to people who already played.
    I agree it may be hard to get them back once they've left for good, but people who play this aren't strangers to breaks and SE has made sure they have numerous avenues to spread word to people about the current state of the game as well.

    We also have a case study of WoW where if a game has enough expansions and has millions of former players that have been sucked in and become "invested" somehow, that they are prone to returning again even though they said they had quit. If any other game has managed to come close to that it's this game.

    There will always be a subgroup like in XI to keep the game alive but it won't yield enough profits to keep up big development and it will go into maint. mode.
    It's hard to say there, because this game did just fine with half its current subscribers. To get below the half-way point, I think it would just flat out take years, because no matter how many people quit, returning players simply replace them and the "returning player factor" will likely take time to wane (if it even does wane, this is all hypothetical).

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    I don't think you guys have ever truly played a game in maintenance mode.
    Either they haven't played one in maintenance mode, or they are knowingly exaggerating.

    SE even has had an example of maintenance mode in FF11. Although there has been content releases occasionally, for many years it has actually just been cycling events such as exp buff events.

    The closest comparison we have to that is the moogle tome event or the make it rain campaign that buffs Gold Saucer MGP. Imagine only having those 2 things and no new dungeons, trials, raids, MSQ, sidequests, extreme, savage, ultimate, criterion, blue mage updates, gold saucer GATEs, deep dungeons, exploratory areas, pvp arenas, no new raid tiers or tomestones or gear or alliance raids. Nothing.
    (5)

  8. #78
    Player
    caffe_macchiato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    708
    Character
    Macchi Ato
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebelheim View Post
    I agree as someone who played since arr released that the formula is pretty stale/copy paste at this point but what's with the ops daily doom posting and daily "this game is dead and I hate this game and the community" how many of these threads are we going to get from op. Broaden your horizons and play other games and see what game fits you or take a break from ff14 and come back in dawntrail to see if the game changes enough to warrant coming back.
    This. People forget that this is FINAL FANTASY XIV. The whole selling point of the game is that you can go play other games. In fact, for just $13/month you can play all the other games you want (sold separately). This isn’t like WoW which enslaves you and forces you to play. FFXIV is the perfect MMO for those who play one weekend a year, so for those people, the game is absolutely flawless.
    (4)

  9. #79
    Player
    Atelier-Bagur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    3,980
    Character
    Cordelia Emery
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 82
    Quote Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato View Post
    This. People forget that this is FINAL FANTASY XIV. The whole selling point of the game is that you can go play other games. In fact, for just $13/month you can play all the other games you want (sold separately). This isn’t like WoW which enslaves you and forces you to play. FFXIV is the perfect MMO for those who play one weekend a year, so for those people, the game is absolutely flawless.
    True, but going with the WoW example, unless youre a Mythic raider, the game has been super casual with not forcing you to log in daily for progression lately. Then again my endgame ends at LFR and Normal so what do I know
    (0)

  10. #80
    Player
    CNitsah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    708
    Character
    A'zalie Nitsah
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    I never understood the criticism about formula. That's not the problem. The problem with Endwalker patches cycle is the total lack of long running content. Content released is mostly good, but it dies in a week or two. Over 2 years, we had something like 50 hours of content, with nearly no shelf life. I always liked the whole "we don't force you into infinite farm", but this time they pushed that too far.

    Nearly nobody complained about ShB when it followed the formula to the letter. If anything, EW strayed from the formula, but systematically chose the wrong way to do it. Even a low in the story wouldn't be that much of a problem if people didn't feel like there was nothing compelling to do when they logged in. Even the lack of exploratory zone would not be a problem if they replaced it by something else that served the same purpose. There would still be the problems of 2 min meta, healers problems, and jobs being "too similar", but let's be honest, those are raider/try-harders that wants to be efficient with all-classes problems : most players don't care about that - not that it doesn't matter, but the impact on the game population is propably not as big as they think it is.

    I'm also baffled by the number of players that didn't even read and took that as someone saying "FFXIV is dying". Nobody said that. There is a whole world between everything is good and everything is bad.
    (3)
    Last edited by CNitsah; 12-25-2023 at 08:23 AM.

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