What if Critical Hit was crit chance and Direct Hit was crit damage?

[TheDustyOne]

I don't agree with that because using that logic, we could also merge all the main stats into Mastery like happens in other games ie. Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength, Mind. I don't support that because it would make the stat system even more boring and is more hand-holdy than even casual players require.

I mean we have stats in single players games and people have always worked with them, we really don't need to go so far as to combine them all into one.

If those stats legitimately don't do anything, there's no point in having them, there's already no choice in increasing the main stats outside ilvl and if I had my way, I would rather get rid of the substats to make the main stats more diverse in function so that a PLD or DRG would have a reason to have points in Dexterity or Mind. Bloating out the stat sheet with a bunch of stats that amount to "it does nothing" is needless and bad design.

Also the stat system being boring is because it offers no depth, if you want the system to be better, padding it with 5 identical stats doesn't help it, it only convolutes it with useless choices. Why do we need Strength, Dexterity, Mind, Intelligence, and Determination if they all amount to "increase damage/healing"? Why even bother telling a BLM player about Strength when the only thing that matters to them is Intelligence? Why do we have the duplicate stat of Determination when the main stat already does Determinations job? The main stats could be replaced purely by ilvl and nothing would change, if anything, that's pretty much how they function already. To make the system better, the stats all need to be useful to the jobs in some form. If Dexterity increased critical rate then all jobs would be fine with Dexterity. If Mind increased MP, maybe a DRK or BLM would want some instead of only padding out their usual main stat.

It's better to have few meaningful choices than lots of useless choices.

[Jeeqbit]

Also the stat system being boring is because it offers no depth, if you want the system to be better, padding it with 5 identical stats doesn't help it, it only convolutes it with useless choices. Why do we need Strength, Dexterity, Mind, Intelligence, and Determination if they all amount to "increase damage/healing"?

Well yes, if SE could replace them with actually useful and diverse stats that function like Logos Actions or Lost Actions then maybe, but so far it doesn't seem like something they would do outside of those areas.

[Vandso]

See, I have a better idea:

Strength: Damage for Maiming, Fending and Striking jobs
Dexterity: Damage for Scouting, Aiming and Striking jobs
Vitality: Max. HP
Intelligence: Damage for Casting and Healing jobs
Mind: Healing and barrier potency

Determination: Overall damage, healing and barrier potency
Critical Hit: Chance of dealing a critical hit and critical damage
Speed: Cast and recast timers, auto-attack delay, dot/hot tick speed and movement speed
Luck: Chance of procs (Chakra, Repertoire, Firestarter, etc, everything that has a chance to happen) and damage of proc actions (Straight Shot, Verfire/Verstone, Reverse Cascade/Bladeshower)
Tenacity: Damage resistance and self heal, only for tanks
Piety: Mana regeneration, only for healers

[TheDustyOne]

I quite like the idea of the Luck stat there. Don't mind me as I steal it.

The stats I'd go for would probably look more like this:

• Power - Increases damage and healing
• Dexterity - Increases critical rate
• Vitality - Increases maximum HP
• Mind - Increases maximum MP
• Agility - Decreases GCD cast/recast time
• Luck - Increases proc rate and critical damage

That said, if I really had my way, pretty much most jobs would make use of MP in some form, yes that would include non-magic jobs like WAR, DRG, MNK, etc., just so MND would be beneficial to them in some way and possibly affect their rotation in a way that just simply upping damage doesn't achieve.

Imagine for example that Inner Release on WAR had a short cooldown, but consumed all your MP, and however much MP you spent would determine the amount of IR stacks. Let's also assume that doing the rotation also gave enough MP to let you use 3 IR stacks every 60s like now. Suddenly MND becomes a "I can Fell Cleave even MORE" stat, which gives a meaningful change to its rotation since that can also affect things like the Infuriate cooldown and when you might want to burst.

[Shougun]

The same is true for the main stats excluding Vitality. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind all exist in a vacuum. Every single action on any given job scales to exactly to one of those stats. The only exceptions are that discipline of magic auto attacks scale off I think Strength, and Summoner's physick. It would make things a lot cleaner to merge them all into one singular stat: ability power, and then possibly remove auto attacks from disciplines of magic entirely if we do not want them scaling off autos as well. That also allows for a much more flexible gearing system that also results in less items to create.

Haha, that is true. When I was thinking of core stats I was thinking of games that actually cared to have interesting stats and mentally immediately foregone FFXIV. They were a bit easier to balance given type of game though.

Honestly the primary stats in this game is a bit just of a word for thematic sake, and thematic sake only. I wonder if it is even important if the primary stat is present at all. Given that they, where it maters, essentially scale off item level.. you're already expressing the power in that way. Just purge primary stat and say your attack and ability power directly scale with the item level of equipped gear.

It's akin to what you're saying except we just skip the whole line item altogether since we are already expressing it, in 98% of cases, by item level. If I recall there are some items that might be for other 'things' that have item level that may seem weird, but if anything this would just smooth out those issues so players aren't wearing things that give them item level but are entirely useless stat wise (and I can't recall if this was already fixed entirely, it might have been more of a 1.0 / early 2.0 thing, it's certainly not a 6.5 "current content" thing, given all gear is either restricted or level 1 glamour).

Vitality and defense could honestly be the same, tank's HP just taking into account the item level of defensive equipment.

PIE used to work on other jobs, so you could boost MP on BLM, SMN or PLD to do more magic for example. DPS jobs used to have Tenacity's former iteration, Parry, as actual abilities. So they don't have to be role-restricted; it was just a decision by SE to help hand-hold players a bit and make it clear who the stat was really intended for.

The same argument can be made for substats like TEN and PIE, but currently the main stats are in the exact same boat as TEN and PIE in that they are only useful for specific job roles.

It would just make the stat page look so tiny and boring compared to when it released and was full of RPG stats.

Vitality
Attack Power
Rolestat
Crit
DH
Det
ActionSpeed
Defense
Magic Defense (why not merge defenses if we're doing this...)
Item Level

That would be the entire character page if this happened and would strip it of almost any sense of RPG, even if it's just a visual thing and already like this in practice.

That's a fair concern.

On one hand our stats are so straight forward that you could just have "item level" and "secondary stats" describe your character effectively, and on the other hand you'd have very basic very empty page. Either a façade or boring truth lol. I laugh but I am not knocking the idea that sometimes a façade can be better than the truth. I think that will be down to player preference, if they prefer a pretty fake wrapping or the direct truth.

Part of me doesn't like how meaningless it is, and so I appreciate the simplicity of showing reality, but I think the romantic and dreamy side would not only lean towards keeping it 'full' but actually giving a bit more reasons to "something" about that page. Given SE's conservative approach it would just be some more interesting secondary stats and perhaps a minor excuse to stats, such that 'MAYBE' you might see intelligence potion used on a Dark Knight or something because it actually did 'something' to the point someone is thinking about the stat as value even if it's a niche situation. My more pipe dream would be honestly akin to classic RPGs with varied and thematic stats and effects, which are significantly greater hell to balance.. to be totally fair (and my middle ground of hell and balance would be something akin to what I suggested earlier, with interesting effects you earn and set).

[Jeeqbit]

I laugh but I am not knocking the idea that sometimes a façade can be better than the truth.

SE is all about the visual anyway at this point. The differences between jobs are mostly in the animations and visual effects and weapons now. Some would even argue that about mechanics if they are sick of donut > out aoes. It can even be argued about the MSQ considering how huge a percent of it is watching rather than doing. Visual and appearance is kinda what this game is about really.

[ty_taurus]

I quite like the idea of the Luck stat there. Don't mind me as I steal it.

The stats I'd go for would probably look more like this:

• Power - Increases damage and healing
• Dexterity - Increases critical rate
• Vitality - Increases maximum HP
• Mind - Increases maximum MP
• Agility - Decreases GCD cast/recast time
• Luck - Increases proc rate and critical damage

That said, if I really had my way, pretty much most jobs would make use of MP in some form, yes that would include non-magic jobs like WAR, DRG, MNK, etc., just so MND would be beneficial to them in some way and possibly affect their rotation in a way that just simply upping damage doesn't achieve.

Imagine for example that Inner Release on WAR had a short cooldown, but consumed all your MP, and however much MP you spent would determine the amount of IR stacks. Let's also assume that doing the rotation also gave enough MP to let you use 3 IR stacks every 60s like now. Suddenly MND becomes a "I can Fell Cleave even MORE" stat, which gives a meaningful change to its rotation since that can also affect things like the Infuriate cooldown and when you might want to burst.

It’s an interesting stat spread that I think I’d be into depending on how the game adapted to it. But absolutely agree on MP. I think MP is a far more interesting way to manage resources than cooldowns. Not everything can be on an MP system obviously, but for some actions, cooldowns just take away the choice. Take Bards personal DPS buffs for example. Why not make Barrage cost MP and let the bard player choose which actions to augment with it rather than have it basically exist on an automated system. Why is it even a button at this point rather than a proc that automatically triggers every 120 seconds?